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alucia5
shambler
(11/19/02 12:02:50 am)
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What exactly is Samara?
Having watched the English language remake of the film, and being blessed with that very Western need to understand the "science" behind everything....I am curious to explore what Samara is.

There is a repeated mention in the movie that Samara's mother was not supposed to have a child...a point emphasised by Brian Cox's character (Samara's father).

This implies the child was of some unnatural origin. Secondly, Samara's powers preceed her death. She can create pictures as a child. The psychiatrist asks her this in the video interview and we are given this answer. This goes someway to explaining how she can "create" the tape. She is clearly most than an annoyed ghost.

She is also clearly hurting people as a child, and she can't stop "i'm sorry" she says. This malignancy seems to be why she is killed by her own parents.

I can only summise that Samara is some sort of "devil spawn" the child of a birth pact with supernatural evil (i.e. Satan, etc). Is this further explored or addressed in any of the other Ring films, or do you have a better explanation than my "female Damian theory".

Keen to hear from you,

-Alucia

inteferon
manipulator of the Virus
(11/19/02 12:37:15 am)
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Re: What exactly is Samara?
Hello Alucia5 and welcome. Like you, I was also possessed to try to understand all the mysteries after seeing the movie. Fortunately, many of these issues have already been bounced around and a good place to start for answers is the FAQ. Your questions seem to revolve around Samara's nature and a good thread that examines that is "Why is Samara evil?" - pub70.ezboard.com/ftherin...=730.topic

alucia5
shambler
(11/19/02 12:42:00 am)
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Possible non demonic explanation
After reading a few more posts I can see only one alternative theory.

Samara's mother could not conceive naturally - a possible alternative to the devil pact theory is that she tried some alternative conception treatment (perhaps something experimental) that resulted in a child with special powers.

Recalling the local doctor's comments regarding their retarded son Darby "it takes work, some people have limits" It is possible that Samara's parents did not have the capacity to deal with their child's special gifts. Thus isolating and mistreating her. As a result Samara's evil is driven by rejection from her parents. Under this theory her powers are innate but her evil is environmental.

-Alucia

PoptartMcNugget
further down the Spiral
(11/19/02 1:46:44 am)
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Re: Possible non demonic explanation
Thanks, now I am utterly confused, but waiting on baited breath to hear more...I love the movie for this very reason.

:D

Huw Lines
everyone will suffer
(11/19/02 2:26:57 pm)
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Re: Possible non demonic explanation
Check out J's FAQ for more clues as to Sadako's (and Samara's?) origins and nature....

InfluxDatum 
manipulator of the Virus
(11/19/02 11:41:21 pm)
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Samara is not innocent
most sympathizers of samara blame richard and anna of poor parenting or abuse. Then, even if they do not agree of what samara has become, they at least believe that samara was a poor girl who was not treated right so her evil is justified. Her evil resulted from bad parents. If my parents were evil and I were a saint, I would be pissed off and mad if my parents would isolate me in a barn and then succeed at killing me.

But samara was not innocent. With the coming of samara, the island suffered from harsh winters, no fish, and anna was going crazy with all the images that samara was putting in her head. She also put images in richard's head, but he was stronger. At the end, he still committed suicide.

At one point Richard had no choice but to separate samara from anna and thus put her in the barn to alleviate the mental anguish that Anna was experiencing. But I don't think it helped. Samara could torment someone at large. Richard was tormented all the time even after samara had died and in the mainland. Therefore, Anna might have killed samara out of her volatile mental state.

Who created all the conditions for evil around samara? She did. Samara herself created all the evil and attracted evil on herself...and she wants everybody to suffer. I don't even think that her goal was to live. I think her goal was to be born and die and carry her plan of inflicting pain to humankind.

Samaraismybiach
Sadako slave
(11/20/02 1:02:18 am)
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Maybe not innocent, but she may not have been evil either...
most sympathizers of samara blame richard and anna of poor parenting or abuse. Then, even if they do not agree of what samara has become, they at least believe that samara was a poor girl who was not treated right so her evil is justified. Her evil resulted from bad parents. If my parents were evil and I were a saint, I would be pissed off and mad if my parents would isolate me in a barn and then succeed at killing me.

I don't think Richard and Anna were bad parents, they just ended up in a situation they (and probably no one) could handle. Anna obviously loved her, and Richard probably tried. I don't believe he abused her (although he had no problem wacking Rachel...), putting her in the barn may have been as much for Samara's protection as theirs. Even if she was abused, it doesn't justify killing innocent people. If anything, she should have only had a beef with Richard. She's definitely an evil ghost.

You have to admit, though, putting her in the well didn't really help matters. The Morgans didn't know that, or realize how hideously she died, but they unwittingly made things worse.

But samara was not innocent. With the coming of samara, the island suffered from harsh winters, no fish...

?? No one accused her of that. The doctor said this, but I assumed she was talking about hard times in general, not something Samara caused. Didn't she say this was "way before the horses"? There was no indication in life or death that she had that type of ability. I can see the more superstituous types blaming her for it, however.

and anna was going crazy with all the images that samara was putting in her head. She also put images in richard's head, but he was stronger. At the end, he still committed suicide...At one point Richard had no choice but to separate samara from anna and thus put her in the barn to alleviate the mental anguish that Anna was experiencing. But I don't think it helped. Samara could torment someone at large. Richard was tormented all the time even after samara had died and in the mainland. Therefore, Anna might have killed samara out of her volatile mental state.

Okay, this much we do know to be true. Deliberately or involuntarily (perhaps both), she was putting images in the minds of others. Based on what the doctor said, it was probably not limited to just the Morgans, either. This could have been deliberate, or something beyond her control. In any case, I'm not sure this warrented a death sentence, unless there is more to it we haven't been shown yet.

Who created all the conditions for evil around samara? She did. Samara herself created all the evil and attracted evil on herself...and she wants everybody to suffer.

Maybe, maybe not. I know you're paraphrasing the famous "Everyone will suffer" line, but there has to be a good reason why such a great line hit the cutting room floor. I think the filmmakers were downplaying her "evilness". If she had said that in the tape, well, her intent in life would have been crystal clear. And before you say it, yeah, I did see when Rachel remembered Samara's words at the end of the film. I still maintain she was remembering what Samara said in hindsight, with the knowledge that she wasn't dealing with a kid, but a ruthless spirit.

Look, if she is shown in the sequel to be the spawn of the Devil, and she sang songs in that sweet voice of hers of mankind's destruction, then killing her was an act of self defense. They should have poured gasoline in the well and tossed in a match if that was the case. I'm just saying that it's possible she was just a kid who did bad things that were out of her control.

I don't even think that her goal was to live.

She tried her best to scramble out of that hole, though. She also looked somewhat surprised as she saw the well being covered up behind her. As others have suggested, I don't doubt she had an inkling of what was coming. Again, you have to remember she was eight. She may have seen the images and not totally understood that it was her own death--by her mother's hands---that she was seeing, just that something bad was going to happen. I don't know about anyone else, the face-in-the-trashbag image on the tape had no meaning until I later watched her mother attempting to kill her.

If it was her "destiny" to die, why not just throw herself in and sink to the bottom, why linger for seven days?

I think her goal was to be born and die and carry her plan of inflicting pain to humankind.

Assuming she was this evil being, if she had to "die and carry out her plan", then doesn't that mean she had to discard whatever was human about her in order to enact her plan? I don't feel sorry for whatever alleged evil was inside Samara or influenced her as a child, and I definitely don't feel sorry for the malevolent spirit that's causing death and destruction. I just feel sorry for whatever part of her that was human that died in that well.

mellybeanTC
further down the Spiral
(11/20/02 9:49:42 am)
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Re: Maybe not innocent, but she may not have been evil eithe
i think she was an evil entity inside a child's body and mind, so she could be both innocent and evil at the same time. perhaps with parents that tried to help her instead of harm her, they could have helped try to her control her powers (even if it didn't work). by isolating and finally killing her, they only succeeded in fueling her evil.

peace,
melicia{TC}

mayadevi
further down the Spiral
(11/20/02 9:55:22 am)
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maybe both innocent and evil
As I've said before, there's no concrete evidence that Samara deliberately and maliciously caused all the bad stuff that was happening on Moesko Island. I think a part of her was definitely oriented towards evilness, and she probably would have become more dangerous with time, but disposing of her in the way Anna did was just about the worst thing that could have been done. If she were some sort of omnicient malevolent being, why the frantic attempts to scramble out of the well? She had horrible images in her head, she transmitted them to others, but part of her was an eight-old girl. A creature with any trace of humanity, be it ever so slight, doesn't deserve the fate that she was dealt, especially not when meted out by the only person she seemed to have loved. The thing is, the question of what to do with Samara is a conundrum, as Aidan would put it. There's obviously no way to contain her, she's a danger to everyone around her, but the way in which she was finally dealt with burned away whatever impulse towards remorse and mercy that she might have had.

Ghetto Ring
citizen of the Loopworld
(11/20/02 10:48:53 am)
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Re: maybe both innocent and evil
Actually, there's no concrete evidence for most of the ideas in the movie.



=

-One man, one obsession: The Ring!

InfluxDatum 
manipulator of the Virus
(11/20/02 7:37:48 pm)
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bottom line...
Samara herself created all the evil around her life and attracted evil on herself. There was no hint of goodness in her. I can hardly believe that there was any humanity in her. Samara had no gifts that could be used for good. They were all powers for evil. I don't think that there was anything for the morgans to re-direct...

The conversation of Rachel with the doctor did indicate that once samara had left the island, things got better. I must assume no more harsh winters, no fish, etc. That's the only logical connection.

Did Samara deserved to be killed? I never indicated that she deserved to die, but samaraismybiatch tried to make that silly connection. I never implied it. The answer is that no one does, but it happens. I am assuming now that Anna killed Samara out of her mental state. Watched the news recently...depressed moms killing their kids? It is attrocious, but if the little brat and bitch did not torment Anna we would not be here guessing. I'd rather think of Jesus Christ. He had done no wrong, yet he was crucified.

Samara's only fruit in word and action was evil. There is hardly any humanity in her that you should be compassionate about.