Author Comment
inteferon
further down the Spiral
(11/3/02 3:36:50 am)
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Significance of "Ring"
Having weighed much of the evidence, I disagree with those who argue vigorously that the "Ring" refers to the passing 'around' of the tape. Here are my reasons:

1. "Everyone will see the ring before they die". It is an object to be seen that is referred to, not an abstract activity. Aiden saw the ring and was compusively drawing it. We were drawn to observe, along with Rachael and Noah, the various circular objects they encountered as their time ticked down.

2. I daresay that the Dreamworks people must have quizzed the author at least a bit about the title's significance and they still saw it fitting to place heavy emphasis on what the covered well looks like during daylight when viewed from the bottom. The corona effect is also evident in the promo material. Basically, Samara wants to be found, and "The Ring" is the ultimate clue that she is stuck in a covered well.

3. The tape passing from one party to the next is not a circular action (the circle never closes) but rather linear, star-like or even random.

FWIW

SadakoIsEve
everyone will suffer
(11/3/02 10:58:40 am)
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Re: Significance of "Ring"
I've heard it called a tree shape. But in any case hollywood likes haveing catch phrases for hooks. 'Before you die you see the ring' is perhaps this movie's equalivalent of that. In any case after seeing the tape you certainly are never the same but in no way does seeing it indicate you shall die for sure. The movie is about more then just the tape right? Well trust me it is

inteferon
further down the Spiral
(11/3/02 1:59:09 pm)
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"Before you die you will see the ring"
I took it to mean that once you see the tape, and as the days are counting down, shortly before you die you will see and feel what Samara experienced. Therefore all who "see the ring" are those who saw the tape.

I agree that it's more than just about the tape, but there's a tension in this story between Samara's childlike desire to have everone experience the hurt she went through (a natural emotion that we all have/would have to some degree), and the other side where she just wants to destroy and spread evil for its own sake. These two somewhat mutually exclusive threads in the story make for many situations that are hard to explain in the other context.

SadakoIsEve
everyone will suffer
(11/3/02 2:06:47 pm)
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Re: "Before you die you will see the ring"
Right.. well okay if you say so

O Deka K
further down the Spiral
(11/5/02 12:39:44 am)
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Re: "Before you die, you see the ring"
That may very well be the significance of The Ring in the remake. There was heavy emphasis on the well corona, drawings, and other ring-shapes strewn throughout the movie.

However, in the Japanese version, there is no such emphasis. You see the well opening from inside it only a few times, and there's no corona. There are no drawings and no coffee mug stains.

That's why I still believe that the Ring refers to the passing of the tape. However, I think it's a misconception to think that it refers to the line of people that the tape passes through. I think it's the more simple cycle:

1. Person watches the tape.
2. Person copies the tape.
3. Person gives the tape copy to another person.
4. Person watches the tape.

And so on. This is the endless cycle, that if broken, spells doom to he who breaks it.

Before you die... you GOTTA see The Ring!

miharu
manipulator of the Virus
(11/5/02 2:42:35 am)
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Re: "Before you die, you see the ring"
there's a lot to the ring symbolism, from the shape of the ring virus to the well's corona, to the ringing of the phone (which i don't totally buy, japanese connotation or no. japanese are still familiar with english, they're taught it in school from a very early age), to the tape circulation (which is really the only loop-like connotation.. it really is more like a tree), to the shape of an iris and pupil of an eye. think about it.. what's the last thing you see? sadako and samara's eye ;p

-miharu

she never sleeps...

ChaosVirus666God
citizen of the Loopworld
(11/5/02 4:42:55 am)
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Re: "Before you die, you see the ring"
Dreamworks altered the story of ring alot, they also gave the original story of the film more significnace, I have to say that The Ring has earned it's position in the ring hall of fame.

<a href="http://www.direngrey.nu/silenthill/" target="_new">
<img src="http://www.direngrey.nu/silenthill/pyramid.jpg"></a><br>
Who are you in Silent Hill? Find out <a href="http://www.direngrey.nu/silenthill/" target="_new">here</a>! by <lj user=thingwraith>

THERE IS ONLY ONE VIRUS GREATER THAN THE RING VIRUS AND THAT IS THE CHAOS VIRUS!!!!
Visit my site at: www.angelfire.com/goth/chaosvirus


NumbTheo
shambler
(11/5/02 6:12:32 am)
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loop/ring
.. i'm not 100% sure about this , but i have a feeling that the japanese ring title could also be translated as something similar to Loop... or at least, that it refers to ring in the sense of connection rather than shape. plsu, in the original, there is no ring shape in the video. The view up from the well is spherical if anything, with the doctor looking in. So, it would appear that Dreamworks definitely put a lot more meaning into it, adding more imagery and changing the video's emphasis, presumably because The US market coudl not hack something that wasn't really fookin' obvious ;)

fuzzy bat
Sadako slave
(11/19/02 1:25:01 am)
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Re: Significance of "Ring"
Hello,
I recently saw the ring and here is my interpretation of it's symbolism:

The Ring poster: a desecrated Japanese flag. The actual Japanese flag is white with the red rising sun in the middle. The poster for this movie is black with an image of a solar eclipse (a demon devouring the rising sun). Ancient hindu culture believed an eclipse was a demon named Rahu that devoured the sun and it heralded a bad omen. I think the guy who wrote the ring believes Japanese culture is being destroyed and the poster is kind of a strong statement of this.

The tape: The tape contains radiation. I think this because whenever somebody watches it they have bloody nose, which is what happens to people who are exposed to large amounts of radiation. The significance of this will be explained below.

Rachel, Noah, and Aiden: I believe the character "Rachel" is supposed to be "Eve" like, in that she sees a tree on a hill (The tree of knowledge) and then watches a tape that she is told she is not supposed to watch (Adam and Eve knew they weren't supposed to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge) which contains radiation (the fruit of the tee of knowledge) and then shares it with Noah (Adam). Then they find out they must die (God told Adam and Eve that they would now perish because they ate of the tree of knowledge because the knowledge is sin and the wages of sin is death). However, in the Bible, Adam and Eve don't have don't have a child together until after they eat the fruit of knowledge. I thought about this for a while and realized that Aiden sounds alot like Eden (the garden that Adam and Eve tended). A child is like a garden in that you nurture and grow a garden and you plant seeds in a childs mind hoping it will grow into something beautiful.

The tree: in the movie Rachel looks at the tree on the hill and sees the sun set in the west. As the sun sets the leaves on the tree light up a firey red color. I believe the tree is supposed to symbolize three differant things that the writer of "The Ring" beleives is decaying eastern culture. The 1st thing is our (the west) technology. The tree is supposed to resemble a mushroom cloud from an atom bomb. The firey red color of the leaves is supposed to symbolize radiation from the mushroom cloud. The mesage is that our technology is a product of our knowledge which is sin and the wages of sin is death. The west dropped nuclear bombs on Japan in World War two. When the sun sets in the west the fires of hell are seen in the east. The second thing it symbolizes (as mentioned above) is the tree of knowledge from the story of Adam and Eve. The 3rd thing it symbolizes is Jesus's tranfiguration and acention into heaven on a large RADIENT cloud which I believe happened on the SEVENTH day after he rose from the dead (I'll have to crack open a Bible and check this). If I'm right, this may also explain the significance of the "7days after you watch the tape" thing. Anyway, the significance of the tree symbolizing this is that Jesus went to the top of a hill and was transfigured (he turned a bronze or redish color) and acended on a large RADIENT cloud (like a mushroom cloud from an atom bomb). I think the writer of the ring is saying Jesus was the 1st atom bomb that the west dropped on Japan. He believes the intraduction of Christianity to Japan was the 1st time we began to decay their culture. The 2nd time was when we dropped the bomb on them. And the 3rd time we bombed them was with our commerciality via the televison which brings us to the T.V.'s that are seen everywhere throughout this movie.

T.V.: the third bomb shell. We delivered radiation and decay to Japan in the shell of a bomb in World War two. Now we have delivered it again in the shell of a television. Our culture, bad fast food, and social rebellion are breaking down their society.

Samara: She is born three times in the movie. The 1st time she's born is from her mothers womb (which we don't see, and don't have to), then from out of the well (symbolic of a birth canal. The bottom of the well is the earths womb), and then from out of the television. Somewhere in the book of revelations there is something about a dragon that will rise out of the abyss and will bring fire that will scorch the earth. Samara is the dragon and her fire is radiation. She never sleeps because evil never sleeps. "He doesnt know" is what she tells the doctor when she's asked aobut her father. I'm not sure about this but I think what her father doesn't know is that he's not her father. I think her mother was supposed to have laid with the devil in order to have a child. Samara is a demon seed and the seen where her mother puts a bad over her head and throws down the well is supposed to be like she is planting a demon seed in the earth. Then when Rachel opens the well it's supposed to be like opening pandora's box. She is unleashing chaos all over the world which will eventually be completely devoured by our evil (the eclipse or swollowing of the world by a demon)

What killed the horses?: The radiation that Samara emits from her.

The horses: I'm not sure what they are supposed to symbolize. Please let me know if you have any ideas.

distorted faces on film: I beleive this is supposed to represent how when Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge they realized they were naked. I think in this movie whenever a charcter watches the tape and then sees themselves on film, they appear to be distorted because it's like they are seeing how evil they are. Or something like that.

In 7 days you'll die: Well God created the world in seven days and Jesus Acended into heaven on the 7th day after he rose from the dead (i think). How this relates to Samara taking 7 days to die in the well, I'm not really sure, but I think it has something to do with the above mentioned things.

The Water: I'm not sure what this means but I'll take a shot; it conducts electricity which is a product of our knowledge and it kills. Also, it could represent baptism and crossing from one life to another when you die. But I'm not really sure.

The lighthouse: Lighthouses usually symbolize the teachings of Christ because they guide lost boats to shore. They can also symbolize fertility because they are phalical objects. Fertility is a big issue for Samara's mother because she breeds horses and has a difficult time bearing a child. I can't remember that well but, when Rachel goes to the island with the lighthouse, I think the lighthouse is not working anymore. I'm not sure though.

Retarded child: When Rachel visits the island she meets a woman with a retarded child. The woman implys that this is a result of Samara's birth. Isn't mental retardation a birth defect caused by mothers that are exposed to high radiation?

Please let me know what you think of my interpretation. Am I way off base here? Please feel free to add on or let me know anything I might have missed.

Thanks,








inteferon
manipulator of the Virus
(11/19/02 1:50:30 am)
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Re: Significance of "Ring"
Wow, you obviously put a lot of effort into that. Nobody's necessarily right or wrong here and your interpretation is as good as any - especially if it works for you.

One of the fascinating things about this story for me is that it can be interpretted in so many ways. Some of the more theological debates have taken place in the "Why is Samara evil?" thread and you may find some interesting ideas that parallel your own there. You're the first (I think) to bring up the radiation/atomic theory and that may spark some debate. As far as the east/west aspects go, are you aware that the author of the novel upon which this movie is based is Japanese?

One more comment that I would add is that I'm pretty sure that Jesus is thought to have arisen in 3 days (Good Friday -> Easter Monday).

CgChick09 
manipulator of the Virus
(11/19/02 5:58:38 am)
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Re: Significance of "Ring"
Mentaly chalanged would be more appropriate, lol. But i liked your point of views for each topic. They were really good.

fuzzy bat
Sadako slave
(11/20/02 12:22:52 am)
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Re: Significance of "Ring"
Thanks, you guys for responding,

There are so many places on the internet where, when you add your two cents you're just ignored. It's cool that this site is not one of them.

Thank you for telling me about the "Why is Samara Evil" link. I read it and the paralells between the horses and the demonic possesion of pigs was very interesting.

Does anyone remember if the lighthouse was still working when Rachel visited the island though? I've only seen the movie once.

Oh yeah, it's mentally challenged, now, not retarded. Sorry, if I offended the politically correct.

As for if I knew the guy who wrote it was Japanese. The answer is yes. At the time that I saw the movie I didn't know though. After I saw the movie the images were bugging me so much because I knew it was a very symbolic movie but I just couldn't figure out what the symbols meant. Then I looked at hollywood.com and found out there that the writer was Japanese and that the movie had been released in a Japanese version, years before. When I discovered the writer was Japanse I looked at the poster and realized it looked like an eclipse of the rising sun. Then I started thinking about how alot of manga movies deal with post nuclear holocost situations. Then that is when all the atom bomb stuff started to occur to me. I didn't come up with my translation until about a week after I saw the movie.

StrangenessDSS
Sadako slave
(11/20/02 9:45:48 am)
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Re: Significance of "Ring"
The lighthouse was still working; you see it's beam pan through the house several times when Rachel watches SM0015.

While your theory is certainly written well, I don't think it's at all true. I can draw many parallels between pretty much any two stories, but it doesn't mean they're related. Some of the things in The Ring may have been inspired by what you connected them to - or they may have been inspired by something else entirely, or just completely made up.

The radiation idea is interesting, though.

"...who has lost his tail?"

Wizard2
further down the Spiral
(11/21/02 12:31:41 am)
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Ring
I'd have to agree with O Deka K.
"Ring" refers to a cycle of events: you watch the tape, copy it, give it to someone else and they watch it, copy it, etc.
A broken circle is symbolic of evil. In the case of the ring, if you break the cycle (unknowingly) you die. In the remake, the meaning was taken literally to mean that you actually see a physical "ring", the eclipse of sunlight around the cover of the well.
However, I think the original author intended it to mean the cycle of events as listed above. The other books are called Loop and Spiral, and they all refer to a cycling motion.

Aliasi Sudonomo
Sadako slave
(11/21/02 12:58:10 am)
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Re: Ring
On the other hand....

I don't think adding a literal interpretation to the idea of "the ring" damages the mythology or the symbolism of the series in any way. Aside from being a much kinder change than some listed in the "other" submitted screenplays (find 'em on Google's newsgroup search - they SUCK) it merely adds a bit more depth. It's certainly easier to fit into a single movie than the more involved Ring Virus explaination, and let's keep in mind there was never a guarantee that the remake would have a sequel, though it's now a foregone conclusion.

In short, everything is true. Even the false things. (Hail Eris!)

Lord Alakinsky
further down the Spiral
(11/21/02 11:19:24 am)
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Re: Ring
My biggest problem with the connotaiton of "Ringu" being the sound the phone makes having a signifigance in the Japanese original is that in Japanese, phones don't "ring". They "call out" or "sing" is a better translation. The Japanese verb used is "naru" which means to call out using a voice. To a Japanese person, a phone sounds like "tsu ru ru ru", not "ring ring" like in English. Japanese is a different language, so even the onomatapoeia is different. Japanese onomatapoeia is a very difficult part of learning Japanese because everything you are used to sounding like (from the way a dog barks to the way wind passes through your hair to the sound rain makes when it falls) are all different, and the sounds vary, especially in the sense of rain, depending on how heavy the rain is, how strong the wind is blowing, etc. Like I said, it's difficult to learn.

But the important thing to remember is that to Japanese people the sound of a telephone is not a ringing sound like we hear. The sound is translated idiomatically as "the phone rings" from "denwa ga naru", but the trick with idioms is that they NEVER translate literally, they are expressions, therefore any kind of literal translation is way off.

Therefore, I do not believe that the sound of a phone has anything to do with the title of "Ringu".

SadakoIsEve
the chosen infected
(11/21/02 11:51:05 am)
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Re: Re: Ring
I've had a blast all but my obsession of Ring has faded *hugs and all poofs for good*

Turtle God Kame
moderator
(11/21/02 11:54:52 am)
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naw, not the phone!
it's more of a "cycle" type of ring... which... of course... makes perfect sense! >)

Go to Kame's House for assorted junk! Last upd8: 10/10/02

InfluxDatum 
manipulator of the Virus
(11/21/02 1:01:12 pm)
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i'm packing my bags too
there is no more obsession on The Ring. Till the sequel ringworms!

IceCold
shambler
(11/21/02 4:25:09 pm)
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wow
hmm..those are quite interesing theories...however after reading Fuzzy Bat's post, I was baffled on what seemed to me as a simple answer of the obvious, was corrupted by religion, society and culture.

While I think you have made some pretty cool points and observations (im not disagreeing with what you have said about the western culture), I think you are completley blowing the meaning of "the ring" out of porportion . In the original film, the RING is not quite understood...For the most part, it can mean either A) The passsing on of the tape and so forth...or B) The telephone ring (while I think this is NOT correct it seems more pliable than any other reason) HOWEVER, in the REMAKE....we have something totally different here.

The director of the remake took a film from the far east and adapted it to a western style. My point is this, if he copied RING exactly like it is from the original, and kept its title "RING", then i can assure you the majority of the people would be completely baffled by the title of the film, how it doesnt quite fit the film. So what Verbinski did is, he took matters into his own hands. After god knows how long of working with his writers, they came up with this (in a nutshell)

The girl got attacked by her mother and was thrown into a well. The last image the girl saw before perishing was the "ring"...the corona shaped image created by the covering of the well surrounded by sunlight. Thats what they were going for in this film. That is why before you die, you see the ring. Samara wants you to know what she saw, she wants you to understand the complete hell and torture she endured for those 7 days and after 7 days of trying, all she could do was lie back, take her final breath of air, and stare at "the ring" before she died. If THE RING were to mean something otherwise, than i HIGHLY DOUBT that in the promotional campaign of the film would show the corona surrounding the title "THE RING". Another way of proving this is when Rachael says, "Before you die, you see the ring" <----- THAT LINE RIGHT THERE....explains everything.

If Gore Verbinski intended on "The Ring" to take on a different meaning, Rachael would have NOT said that. That is all I have I guess on the issue, but I have a great deal of confidence behind myself when I say my theory is correct. You guys have awesome theories and even more awesome imaginations, however sometimes you gotta go with JUST SEEMS to be almost TRUELY logical here...without bringing in topics of religion society, war, ghost tales etc etc (you get the point)

Once again, on the original, no clue. You guys are probably right on when you say that its the "passing on of the virus". Hopefully when DREAMWORKS releases the original DVD in the US along with the remake, they will have commentary on the film clearing these debates up.

Musouka
Sadako slave
(11/22/02 1:20:23 pm)
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Re: Ring
Aside from being a much kinder change than some listed in the "other" submitted screenplays (find 'em on Google's newsgroup search - they SUCK)

You got me curious enough to go around looking for some. What I saw was absolute dreck. Seriously, if "The Ring" had been anything like what those idiots were writing, I would have thrown something at the screen.

How can someone be THAT far off when they watch it?!

Ghetto Ring
manipulator of the Virus
(11/22/02 1:35:46 pm)
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Re: Ring
I like the theory, it's very deep and interesting. However, i don't believe that adam and eve gaining knowledge themselves was bad persay, or that the fruit gave them knowledge. Similar to a common Zen bleief, I believe they gained the knowledge of good and evil because now they had performed evil (disobaying God), thus they know now both sides of the coin. The zen belief i am realtaing to is that everything is defined by its opposite. If you don't know evil, then you don't know good. Thus God told them not to eat from the tree because he wanted their full trust and obediance, not because they would gain knowledge. But this is a topic for another forum...

On another note, why is everyone leaving? Just because the obsession is gone, doesn't mean you can't visit once in awhile



-One man, one obsession: The Ring!

O Deka K
citizen of the Loopworld
(11/28/02 10:21:07 am)
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Re: Another Re-Ring pitch
In another thread (why was it locked?), Musouka wrote:
Alternate Screenplays for the American Version.
I found one here. Has anyone found any more?


Here's another pitch from the same newsgroup thread, from an author named "Ken":

Newsgroup posting

This one's quite a bit better than Neal's (which was awful), but I still don't like it as much as Krueger's. I could have done without the gratuitous sex scene in this one (which is truly gratuitous, because it adds nothing to the plot). I could have also done without the last two parts (starting from "Her Final Moral Dilemma"). The last thing is the huge plot hole where Becca watches the tape, but Katie still dies (I'm using the names from Krueger's, since none were given here).

---
Before you die... you GOTTA see The Ring!

miharu
the chosen infected
(11/28/02 11:31:26 am)
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Re: Another Re-Ring pitch
it was actually locked because there was another thread about that particular rejected treatment here: pub70.ezboard.com/ftherin...1127.topic

on another note, does anyone else find the board's search function to be utter ass? i KNEW the name of that thread and searching for it in several ways brought up nothing :x

-miharu

inteferon
everyone will suffer
(11/28/02 11:41:55 am)
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Re: Another Re-Ring pitch
You're right - the Search is hard to use (kind of brain-dead, really). But if you remember keywords from posts, things can be found. Seems it's more of a resource for veterans than for newbies.

O Deka K
citizen of the Loopworld
(11/28/02 12:14:28 pm)
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Re: Another Re-Ring pitch
THAT'S where it went! I was searching for that thread forever too. I searched for "newsgroup", "screenplay", "repeat", "auto repeat", and even did a nick search on myself and couldn't find it. I even used the options that gave me the broadest search.

And I don't know what you mean by being a resource for veterans, inteferon. It's not exactly like miharu is a newbie.

---
Before you die... you GOTTA see The Ring!

miharu
the chosen infected
(11/28/02 12:20:39 pm)
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Re: Another Re-Ring pitch
i don't think he meant it that way ^^
the way i read it is more of a newbies aren't so likely to read through a lot of old posts whereas the vets know many of the posts and are more likely to go treasure hunting to link to topics deal.

though, compared to the greats like kame and el sammich, i'm still a newbie ;p

edit: i just thought of another nickname for gibal... sammichpants ^^;;; *runs away from inevitable wrath*

-miharu

Edited by: miharu at: 11/28/02 12:21:21 pm
O Deka K
citizen of the Loopworld
(11/28/02 2:07:27 pm)
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Re: Search function
Okay, fine. But still, I looked for keywords that ARE in there, and it didn't find the thread. The list it gave me was very short (sometimes no hits at all). Other times I tried it, and I had to turn on "partial matching", even though it was the full word I was looking for (and it WAS there). It's definitely buggy.

---
Before you die... you GOTTA see The Ring!

inteferon
everyone will suffer
(11/28/02 2:12:31 pm)
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Re: Search function
I've encountered exactly the same problems. My most reliable searches are when I recall the ID of the poster and search by user name - and then look for clues to the right post in the subject line.

miharu
the chosen infected
(11/28/02 5:22:49 pm)
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Re: Search function
when i searched for the topic i linked to, 'rejected ring remake treatment', i searched for all of these keywords.. one at a time, all at a time.. in subject, in whole message, etc. what came up on the search? zippo :x

o-deka, maybe it's just my grogginess, but please don't take my posts the wrong way. just because i'm a horrible bitch in #jpop doesn't mean i am here. in fact.. this is my good side. ^^;;

-miharu

O Deka K
citizen of the Loopworld
(11/28/02 5:35:10 pm)
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Re: Search function
Huh? Taking what the wrong way? Was there something to take wrongly? Were your posts such that the wrong way was to be mistakenly taken? >D No really, did I sound like I was mad at you or something? If so, I didn't mean to. Maybe you're taking my messages the wrong way...

And are you always sleepy?

---
Before you die... you GOTTA see The Ring!

miharu
the chosen infected
(11/28/02 5:38:52 pm)
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Re: Search function
it seems that you've always got a bone to pick with me.. either that or i'm sensitive about it. ;p

haha yes.. i'm ALWAYS sleepy. really ^^; between my night job and trying to adjust my sleeping schedule for a second job and other stuff, i've been a zombie for at least the last 3-4 weeks. pitiful excuse for bad posts, huh? ;p

-miharu

Doctor Scott
Sadako slave
(11/28/02 11:57:30 pm)
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Ring as a symbol of contractual obligation

A ring in the physical concrete sense could evoke images of jewelry. A wedding ring. A contractual obligation (in the clinical, unromantic sense) or an unbreakable bond. You become inextrinsically bonded to Samara when you watch the tape. Her hair looks like a black wedding veil. She walks out of the well like the bride of Frankenstein (the director paid homage to many other horror flicks in the RING).

Or not.

inteferon
everyone will suffer
(11/29/02 2:07:13 am)
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Re: Ring as a symbol of contractual obligation
It's a possibility, Doc. Heck, anything's possible.

Wan girl in The Ring - tra la la la la.

(dunno where that came from....)