Author Comment
Doctor Scott
Sadako slave
(11/28/02 10:04:11 pm)
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Samara is a demonic Alice in Wonderland
Comparing the RING to Alice in Wonderland:

-Alice went down a rabbit hole, Samara went down a well. Both are dark tunnels.
-Alice went through the looking glass, Samara emerges from reflective surfaces
-Alice is a happy fairy tale that gets passed around by word of mouth and makes children happy at bedtime, Samara is a horrific urban legend that gets passed around by word of mouth and makes adults terrified at bedtime.


Whad'ja think?

StrangenessDSS
further down the Spiral
(11/28/02 10:09:03 pm)
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Here's what I think...
I think you should never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise.

Turtle God Kame
moderator
(11/28/02 10:24:33 pm)
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heh
I think that means, "switch to decaf..." >)

though, I hardly think alice's adventures in wonderland and through the looking glass were "happy children bedtime stories"! just read those books! if it doesnt leave you just the slightest bit creaped out, then there's something wrong!

hmm, maybe I should do my "why ring and debbie does dallas are basically the same movie" thread... hehehehehehahahahahahahaha

XD

Go to Kame's House for assorted junk! Last upd8: 11/26/02
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inteferon
everyone will suffer
(11/29/02 1:19:43 am)
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Re: heh
And maybe it's because Lewis Carol was a pedophile who did an insane amount of drugs. No sh!t.

Isoline
citizen of the Loopworld
(11/29/02 1:31:39 am)
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Re: heh
I always thought there was something really wrong with cats that disappear leaving only a smile behind.

You say psycho like its a bad thing!

Rachael
citizen of the Loopworld
(11/29/02 7:33:28 am)
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heh
Hmm.

There is that one shot of Mrs. Morgan in the mirror that creeps me out (on the cursed videotape) She's brushing her hair in the mirror, but we only see her reflection in the mirror, she's not standing in front of it. It gives the impresson that we are on the other side of the mirror, looking out.

coweatman
shambler
(11/29/02 10:33:55 am)
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lewis carroll
anyone hear the new tom waits album?

Turtle God Kame
moderator
(11/29/02 12:46:03 pm)
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pedophile?
I heard that he took opium (and in that time, who didnt?), but pedophile? that's news to me. where'd you hear that from?

Go to Kame's House for assorted junk! Last upd8: 11/26/02
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inteferon
everyone will suffer
(11/29/02 12:55:05 pm)
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Re: pedophile?
Not your full-blown pedohile, but definitely borderline. It's mostly the subject of scholarly speculation. Here's one example: www.unlovely.net/writing/pedophile.shtml

Turtle God Kame
moderator
(11/29/02 1:21:16 pm)
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Ok, I've got 2 problems with that...
1) he stretches some of the stories to just seem like it means something else.

2) there is absolutely no resources! I rarely believe anything written without a list of resources! you have no clue if he's just making up this stuff!

personally, I tend to question anyone who looks too deep into things... it wouldnt suprise me if this guy is a bit borderline pediophiliac himself! though dodgeson was crazy in his own right... I just wonder if the writter of that hates his work, cause it seemed pretty anti-carroll to me. and biased works tend to make me doubt the authenticity of the statements.

speculation is the key word here...

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inteferon
everyone will suffer
(11/29/02 2:11:46 pm)
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Re: Ok, I've got 2 problems with that...
Remember that this was from an age when they had child slave labor and less awareness of the harm that pedophiles cause, so I'm not surprised that there aren't arrest records, etc. However, it has been the subject of speculation for generations and perhaps does have some basis. You're right - this guy has an axe to grind - and in the end, it is only speculation. I apologize for stating it as a fact.

Doctor Scott
Sadako slave
(11/29/02 6:38:08 pm)
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Samara is a demonic Alice in Wonderland

Well it's kind of like Stephen King's "the Jaunt". Your worst nightmare of what's on the other side, or the inside. Your worst nightmare of a 30-year old Alice comes out of the rabbit hole (the well) or comes back out of the mirror (the TV, because after all, don't we all look to the TV shows to see pieces of ourselves reflected in them, to verify that we are "normal"?) "You don't know where I've been, Lou, you don't know where I've been."

JyPsy
citizen of the Loopworld
(11/30/02 5:49:26 am)
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Re: Samara is a demonic Alice in Wonderland
twas brillig, and the slithy toves, did gyre and gimble in the wabe, all mimsy were the borogoves, and the momeraths outgrabe.

"Beware the jabberwock my son, the jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the jubjub bird, and shun the fruminous bandersnatch!"

So took he his vorpal sword in hand, and longtime monxome foe he sought, so rested he by the tumtum tree, and stood a while in thought.

and as in uffish thought he stood, the jabberwock, with eyes of flame, came wisping through the tulgy wood, and burbled as it came.

"ONE TWO ONE TWO AND THROUGH AND THROUGH"
The vorpal blade went snicker snack.
he left it dead.
and with its head.
he went gallumphing back.

"Hast thou slain the jabberwock? Come to my arms my beamish boy, oh Frabjous day, Calloo Callay! " he chortled in his joy.

twas brillig, and the slithy toves, did gyre and gimble in the wabe, all mimsy were the borogoves, and the momeraths outgrabe.

~JyPsy
The grand phoob of the universe.
"....Yeah, they're butt olives"

Turtle God Kame
moderator
(11/30/02 7:53:44 am)
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ah well...
I still cant wait till American McGee's Alice movie comes out! that'll be bitchin!

Go to Kame's House for assorted junk! Last upd8: 11/26/02
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Isoline
citizen of the Loopworld
(11/30/02 4:34:54 pm)
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Re: Samara is a demonic Alice in Wonderland
I want the JubJub bird.

You say psycho like its a bad thing!

JyPsy
citizen of the Loopworld
(11/30/02 9:31:14 pm)
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Re: Samara is a demonic Alice in Wonderland
i wanted to see it till i heard that it would be done Nightmare before xmas style.
i think it would need to be liveaction.

~JyPsy
The grand phoob of the universe.
"....Yeah, they're butt olives"

KuraiSoma 
citizen of the Loopworld
(11/30/02 9:35:18 pm)
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Re: Samara is a demonic Alice in Wonderland
on mcgee's alice: I dont care how they do it, as long as it manages to be delightfully disturbing. Anyways, you have to love the designs of nearly all the characters in it ;p

as for Carrol's pedophilia, I recall there being quite a stir about introducing his books into classrooms. Still no definate proof, but he had quite a rep as a pedarast.

anouke
out from the well
(12/1/02 12:26:10 am)
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Re: Samara is a demonic Alice in Wonderland
*reads isoline's comment and cracks up*

Hey, wasn't the girl who was the model for Alice in real life his granddaughter? And didn't he draw numerous pictures of her, some of them in the nude? I'm all for art, but there's some things you draw a line at.

Isoline
citizen of the Loopworld
(12/1/02 10:20:37 pm)
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Re: Samara is a demonic Alice in Wonderland
I also heard that Alice was modeled after his granddaugher too, but I don't know about all the nude drawings and stuff. If they do an McGee Alice movie I hope they get Tweaker to do the soundtrack.

And yes, the JubJub Bird will be mine.

You say psycho like its a bad thing!

inteferon
the chosen infected
(12/1/02 10:50:11 pm)
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Re: Samara is a demonic Alice in Wonderland
I've still got a 30-year old painting tucked away that I did of the Jabberwock when I was in grade 4. It was the only picture for which a teacher gave me a gold star. |I

Turtle God Kame
moderator
(12/1/02 10:55:10 pm)
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origin of alice
wasnt his grandchild, but a little girl he looked after... her name was Alice Little

Go to Kame's House for assorted junk! Last upd8: 11/26/02
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Tanuki
Sadako slave
(12/2/02 8:59:36 am)
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Re: origin of alice
re: Alice in Wonderland being disturbing... I've noticed that some more fairy-tale like children's stories which are read purely as entertainment by the very young, are disturbing to adults who read them. I attribute this to the adult's firmer calcification in the world, by which I mean, that most adults have a less active imaginary life than children. (When was the last time you played Cowboys and Indians in the back yard?) Thus, when something comes along which requires more imagination than the adult possesses, they get weirded out.

This happens to explain things like vilification of video games and roleplaying games - unimaginative adults get weirded out by things which require enough imagination to crack their calcified worldviews.

(Note that I do not present this a bad thing - it's simply a natural process of aging and acquiring responsibilities.)

(Also check out Neil Gaiman's comments on Coraline, which is left as a exercise for the reader.)

---
"I know that I was born and I know that I'll die.
The in between is mine."

Turtle God Kame
moderator
(12/2/02 11:16:27 am)
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hehe
have you ever read any of the original Grimm brother's stories? they hardly look like storyies for children!

Go to Kame's House for assorted junk! Last upd8: 11/26/02
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cHaRliE bROwn
shambler
(12/2/02 11:23:21 am)
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im lOSt
i dont get it...

Tanuki
Sadako slave
(12/2/02 11:51:44 am)
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Re: hehe
Grimm's stories? I had an entire class on folklore. Folktales are targetted at the entire family, from very young to very old. They involve many levels of meaning and symbolism.

Oh, and they all involve sex, in one way or another. ~_^

---
"I know that I was born and I know that I'll die.
The in between is mine."

SSJPabs 
out from the well
(12/3/02 9:36:25 pm)
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Re: Samara is a demonic Alice in Wonderland
Indeed, the Grimm fairytales make me laugh because of their delicious irony or dark humor. I intend to make sure my little sister knows the real stories and not the disney versions when she gets old enough. (We're well over a decade apart in age.)

anouke
out from the well
(12/4/02 12:37:05 am)
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Re: Samara is a demonic Alice in Wonderland
Grimms Fairy-tales were NOT meant for children originally. They were more like "morality stories" passed down from generation to generation. It was only later that they got sanitized for children.

Tanuki
Sadako slave
(12/4/02 7:46:04 am)
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Re: Samara is a demonic Alice in Wonderland
Um, sorry, but they were meant for children (and adults, and the elderly). Grimm didn't write them - they just collected them. They were all well known folktales. Indeed, you can find variants of most of them in many different cultures, from European to African to Chinese, etc.

Nowadays, we don't think they were meant for children, because of the greusome imagery. But you have to remember that our culture has incredibly different ideas about what is appropriate for children than the 16th century Germans did, inherited from our Puritan founders and reinforced by the prevelance of Elizabethan morality, from whence the idea that fairy tales should be just for kids originated.

---
"I know that I was born and I know that I'll die.
The in between is mine."

obsestwithmest
shambler
(12/18/02 5:30:23 pm)
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drugs
i think they are both:rollin better on drugs:hat