Author Comment
Mister Grey
citizen of the Loopworld
(11/3/02 9:32:11 pm)
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Richard Got a Bum Rap
It seems to me that Richard Morgan has gotten a real bum rap in all of Ring-dom. Most people think that he was a nasty to begin with and wasn't playing with a full deck; it also seems to have come up somehow that he made Anna kill Samara; but I find no evidence of this in the film. People seem to forget that even the nicest of folk can be pushed beyond their limits, and the result of that isn't always nice. From all indications in the movie, Richard wasn't some overbearing blowhard in the start. His daughter did, after all, turn out to be demonspawn. Wouldn't you lose it, too? This was supposed to be his child. A piece of him. And look how she turned out. Richard isn't some psycho; he's just as much a victim of Samara as the horses or Noah.

ring rasen loop
Administrator, Ring guru
(11/3/02 9:36:18 pm)
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Re: Richard Got a Bum Rap
That's exactly what I thought made his character so great-- he was a broken man, so to speak. Not inherently crotchety, but "pushed beyond his limits," as you put it. I thought his character showed considerable depth.


j.

SadakoIsEve
everyone will suffer
(11/3/02 9:36:46 pm)
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Re: Richard Got a Bum Rap
Maybe

mikejonas
moderator
(11/3/02 9:39:49 pm)
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Agreed

I don't think any of us would've done any different in his place, and his actions were believable. One could imagine that at first he tried to treat Samara well (I doubt Anna would've set up that swing), but as her true nature emerged, he grew more distant, then was forced to react as she began to harm the woman he loved.

rraaarr nz
Sadako slave
(11/3/02 9:40:45 pm)
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Re: Richard Got a Bum Rap
as far as I can tell, there are many different opinions on whether or not Richard was even the father of Samara - and going back to the Japanese versions, the malevolent spirit/statue guy (en no.. ??) was the father...

I just am not quite sure why Richard chose that time to kill himself, of all times.. he'd known for a while what was happening, and seemed to know of the existence of the tape, if not what was actually on it.. ?? But he didn't want a child in the first place, not Samara, not anyone, right? He kept her in a barn all by herself, what is the deal with that? He may have been a regular guy, but he knew far more than he was letting on.. and for what reason?

hm2k
further down the Spiral
(11/3/02 10:38:00 pm)
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Re: Richard Got a Bum Rap
Personally, I am under the impression he had no clue about the Tape. I think the only tape he knew of was the tape from the mental hospital.

Which also makes me wonder: were VHS recording devices around in the late 70s, or did they transfer it to VHS later on?

--
hm2k

KuraiSoma 
further down the Spiral
(11/3/02 10:43:06 pm)
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Re: Richard Got a Bum Rap
Hmm, I agree with the first few posts detailing Richard's character. I don't think he was an evil man, neither was his wife, Anna; yet, she was pushed to the murder of her own daughter. Most would call that fairly evil.

As far as my memory serves, we were never shown that Samara had always been kept in the barn; she was likely put there after the darker side of her powers manifested. If he really hadn't been keen to the notion of having a daughter, don't you think he wouldve eventually got his tubes tied (too tired to think of the actual term, lol) if he couldn't convince Anna to take up any other form of contraception? They went through 60+ miscarriages; thats a lot of seed spreading, if you ask me.

Back to his character, I imagine Richard tryed just as hard as Anna to love that child. However, Samara was hurting the woman he had given his life to; and you could reason that parental instinct knew something was up, perhaps he had a sense that she wasn't his actual kin. Barring any further changes in the story (which were few, to be honest.. they really just changed the set and circumstances of the original) we'll find that Richard being Samara's father is quite questionable; it really does all add up to a man pushed over the edge. The question of his choice of times to off himself, who knows.. maybe Rachel's investigation was the final straw; the last bit of his past showing back up, and he couldn't take it anymore.

I would question his method of suicide more than anything, as (to me at least) he seems to have some awareness of Samara's current state, however vague that may be.

SadakoIsEve
everyone will suffer
(11/3/02 10:44:31 pm)
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Re: Re: Richard Got a Bum Rap
Either way you are right hm2k

hm2k
further down the Spiral
(11/3/02 10:51:48 pm)
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Re: Re: Richard Got a Bum Rap
>>They went through 60+ miscarriages; thats a lot of seed spreading, if you ask me.<<

Miscarriages in the 1960s, not 60+ miscarriages.

--
hm2k

Samarasmybiach
shambler
(11/3/02 10:55:50 pm)
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Richard
>I just am not quite sure why Richard chose that time to kill himself, of all times..

I'm not sure, either. I suspect Rachel's appearance at the island---because of Samara---was the last straw. There also may have been some guilt on his part he could no longer endure.

>But he didn't want a child in the first place, not Samara, not anyone, right?

He probably did want a child initially, or at the very least wanted to please Anna, based on the lengths they went to have a baby. I think his enthusiam understandably wanned as Samara grew up.

>He kept her in a barn all by herself, what is the deal with that?

The "pictures" Samara were showing everyone happened when she was around (according to the doctor). Keeping her in the barn meant no pictures. Pity about the horses, though.

>Which also makes me wonder: were VHS recording devices around in the late 70s, or did they transfer it to VHS later on?

They were around, but they didn't pass Betamax in popularity until sometime in the early 80s. If they didn't record on VHS in the first place, no doubt they transferred the video after beta died.


SadakoIsEve
everyone will suffer
(11/3/02 11:04:57 pm)
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Re: Richard
I was born in 1980 so never even ever heard of beta *giggles*

inteferon
further down the Spiral
(11/3/02 11:48:40 pm)
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Richard
Originally I was antagonistic toward Richard because he seemed menacing toward Rachael. When he was holding that hook it occurred to me that the filmmakers were trying to work in another urban legend and that he would be a killer. Later, I faulted him for avoiding responsibility by taking the suicide route instead of helping Rachael to clean up the mess that he and his wife had spawned. However as I think about it with hindsight, I have empathy for all that he endured (as already elaborated above) and can understand why he snapped. If there is anyone to be faulted, it is Rachael for being so dishonest. At no time did she tell Richard the real reason why she was there and that she had the curse upon her. Perhaps if she had, as one human being to another, invited him help her, Richard may have risen to the challenge and have found salvation in another way.

Since this is a thread devoted to Richard, can anyone guess at the significance of Richard looking down from the window on the tape?

JyPsy
out from the well
(11/3/02 11:59:21 pm)
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Re: Richard
the significance: it seems like samara was looking up at him, and strikingly is similar to the cloth headed father in the japanese film.....

and as for him knowing about the tapes? He KNEW! he even asked did you make a copy? (or something along those lines?)
he knew a lot, and said he had so much to do now...

~JyPsy
The great phoob of the universe

inteferon
further down the Spiral
(11/4/02 12:07:25 am)
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Richard knowing
It has been discussed elsewhere (and not conclusively) that Richard may have thought that Rachael was referring to the SM0015 asylum tape. There is no proof in my mind that Richard knew *exactly* what Rachael was talking about. And he may have said that he has much to do at that point - but what useful things did he really do besides gather up every power cord that he could lay his hands on?

Bruised Pristine
Sadako slave
(11/4/02 2:20:18 am)
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Re: the tape
I think he wanted to destroy all evidence of Samara, and if that meant killing, he would--general consesus is that he probably helped Anna push the lid of the well over the top.

I think he thought Rachel had a copy of the mental institution vid. As far as he knew, there were only two copies of it in the world--the one he had, and the one in Rachel's hand. If he killed Rachel, he could destroy the tape and no one would know. But then she told him that she made a copy (of mental institution vid, he thinks) which could be anywhere, as far as he knows, which means someone else would find it if Rachel was dead.

Just my theory, anyway.

JyPsy
out from the well
(11/4/02 3:04:08 am)
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Re: the tape
he had to have known to make the comment "he will die" about her son, also he had the only copy of the asylum vid since he took it out himself.....and why would you ask such a pointed question, about copies?? interesting though, he never attempted to kill rachel, just smacked her out cold.

~JyPsy
The great phoob of the universe

Bruised Pristine
Sadako slave
(11/4/02 3:32:58 am)
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re: Richard
When did he say Aidan would die? I've seen it twice, but that line is totally slipping my mind.

And we don't know when he stole the tape. As far as he knows, the doctors could have made a copy and sold it (because face it, Samara's freaky, and the media loves freaks), or Rachel could have gotten to it before him and made a copy for herself then.

As for why he asked about a copy, like I said: if she had the only other copy of the tape, it would be safe to kill her, because then he would have the only two copies of the mental institution tape in his posession. But if there's another copy of the mental institution vid floating around out there (because Rachel made a copy) killing her would be pointless--there's another tape of Samara in the institution and he has no idea where it is.

I think he probably had to idea how far-reaching Samara's evil was. He probably assumed that Rachel was doing an investigation into Samara's disappearance, or Samara in general, or his wife, and he didn't want that story to get out.

Venomspyke
Sadako slave
(11/4/02 4:46:56 am)
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Don't be so sure...
Richard might have appeared "misunderstood"

But doesn't anyone remember when he said "She wasn't supposed to have a child" or something... www.themorganranch.com has a bunch of stuff related to the movie, especially the horses deaths and even a psychological profile (albeit brief) that were all straight from the movie. The portrayal of Richard spelled one word to me, "Ambition". Having a child in the picture distracted Anna as it was her dream. This of course took away from her attendance on the horses, which angered Richard since she was the trainer of the horses.

Of course, if you all wish to point toward the "pushed to his limits" idea, I would say it was his ambition that pushed him to his limits. He wanted that child out of the picture. I don't think it was said just how long Samara was kept in the barn, isolated from everyone in that freaky loft... but it's certain Richard put her there, or Anna put her there at Richard's request.

Samara even said in the movie that "Daddy hates me". She is only a child... not "Demonspawn"... a child only becomes Demonspawn if their parents and apparantly the community she lives in, treats her that way.

If anyone here is misunderstood, it's Samara... I mean, if you grew up as tortured as that little girl did... wouldn't you want everyone to die too?

Venomspyke
Sadako slave
(11/4/02 4:56:35 am)
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re: Richard
I think the tape is what the girl "Becca" said at the beginning. A record of somebody's nightmare. Or in this case, a record of traumatic events burned into somebody's mind (in this case Samara's mind). I gathered this since there are memories of her Mother (whom she loved since she said "I want my Mommy" in her psych evaluation) in the tape. Things a child would normally remember of their parent, something as simple as brushing her hair.

Since the tape is either memories outright of Samara's life (or death as the case may appear), I think the image of Richard looking down at Samara from the window was probably one of her last memories. The look on his face was definetely one of contempt... It could have been him watching over Samara as her Mother killed her...

of course, that's just what I think...

JyPsy
out from the well
(11/4/02 5:45:48 am)
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Re: re: Richard
he says it because she mentioned that aiden saw the tape. and he says "oh he will die"

~JyPsy
The great phoob of the universe

miharu
manipulator of the Virus
(11/4/02 5:48:56 am)
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Re: re: Richard
the quote is somewhat closer to 'but my son will die!' and he says 'oh yes, he will' and then maybe something else before 'oh god, she never sleeps', then he flips the switch.

i'd rewatch the scene right now to get it accurate, but i don't think i need that right before bed ^^;

-miharu

she never sleeps...

KuraiSoma 
further down the Spiral
(11/4/02 8:08:09 am)
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re: samara misunderstood?
Apparently you missed the entire point of the movie, or you walked out too early and missed the real ending. Either way; if you didn't get gigantic vibes of EVIL from our second viewing of the asylum tape, I'd be forced to say that you're going to be fairly oblivious to any such signs. What do we need, a big 666 stamped on her forehead and cloven feet? Honestly, her innate darkness is the only thing that makes her character work for me at all; she doesn't have the natural physical creepiness of Sadako. I for one, never want a reason to empathize with Samara; it worked in the case of Sadako, but just barely...

Nemesis
Sadako slave
(11/4/02 3:06:37 pm)
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I've got to agree--
Samara IS most definitely evil. She was evil as a child and is evil in death. She drove her mother to insanity and murder and her father to suicide. If you remember Racheal's questioning of the family doctor, you could sense that the doctor knew, too. She recognized that Samara cast a very dark and foreboding shadow across that island when she was alive. No, Samara is nothing but the spawn of hell and a demonic entity.

SadakoIsEve
everyone will suffer
(11/4/02 3:42:55 pm)
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Re: I've got to agree--
But me I disagree or rather I am in the bucket of those that miss signs
I probably am very much being stubborn but oh well ^_^ *giggles*

JyPsy
out from the well
(11/4/02 3:49:53 pm)
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Re: I've got to agree--
on this one i disagree.
I think samara was evil, yes, but not intentionally. neither was her mother neither was her father.
dont you think it was kind of strange that she could never have a child? until samara? after she visited the herbalist? hmmmm (goes with the samara being purged theory)

~JyPsy
The great phoob of the universe

SadakoIsEve
everyone will suffer
(11/4/02 4:04:01 pm)
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Re: Re: I've got to agree--
Interesting

KuraiSoma 
further down the Spiral
(11/4/02 5:21:28 pm)
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Re: the nature of evil
Oh, I don't think that Samara was 'intentionally' evil by any means; she simply -was- evil, no choice in the matter. I don't see her as having the human advantage of choice in this matter; she was most likely born from and into evil, and evil has no other purpose but to propetuate more of itself.

SadakoIsEve
everyone will suffer
(11/4/02 6:16:05 pm)
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Re: Re: the nature of evil
Which fits everything in movie just dandy :D

Bruised Pristine
Sadako slave
(11/5/02 1:22:18 am)
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re: samara and anna
In reference to the "Samara loved her mommy" thing, I totally didn't see it that way. When Samara said, "I want to see my mommy. I love my mommy," it sent a shiver down my back. Anna was the person she was doing the most damage to, and it seemed like she just wanted to go and damage her even more.

We don't even know if Samara could feel love. She couldn't feel pain, so whose to say she could feel love?

I do think that she did love Anna, but she also hated her. Especially since Samara had psychic visions of the future (the burning tree, etc.) she probably knew what was coming and she wanted to hurt or even kill her mother, doing to her what she did to the horses.