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CptObvious
further down the Spiral
(11/26/02 9:24:58 pm)
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New Theory : Samara released from the Well
I was the poster of the previous topic, making a new one. I have pulled a complete 180...heres why :


The physical manifestation theory makes sense to me now. Think about Katies encounter at the beginning. She first encounters the TV that keeps turning itself on...not displaying the well....just static. At this point I believe Samara is simply trying to terrify Katie, put her on edge. When she finally unplugs the TV we see a manifestation, or disturbance behind Katie, reflected off the TV screen. This MUST be Samara, there is no other suitable explanation that fits here.

She then enters the kitchen and find the refridgerator door slightly pulled open (simply a plot point to mess with Katie / the viewer?...to raise pulses that much more). She slowly makes her way upstairs....at witts end and in a panic, Katie calls out to Becca, but to no avail. Katie now, as well as the audience is EXPECTING something to happen. By the time Katie opens her bedroom door, she is at a pinacle of fear. The hour has come.

Having watched the video a week earlier, Katie would instantly recognize the well. She sees the well displayed on her TV and freaks out screaming like crazy. The camera view switches from Katie, quickly to the TV to show the audience what we knew all along, THIS IS IT. Then it pans to a camera moving very quickly towards Katie. I theorize now that this is Samaras viewpoint (we saw the room, no Samara in sight...she wouldnt hide behind the door and play peekaboo). Katie cannot see her (remember screaming because the well is on the TV, I know I would) but as displayed by the teaser..in the last frame here, Katies face has already started to rot / decay. Samara is a weak apparition that doesnt kill by fright...she somehow enters the body, and kills from the inside out. The fear at that point mixed with Samara entering the host (cough VIRUS cough) kills the victim.

Now I think removing Samara from the well has a HUGE metaphysical as well as ironic theme. She is no longer "trapped" and can now exit the well as she wishes, to claim her victims how she sees fit...Not that she couldnt before, but now she can manifest in a much stronger form. Purely visible to living people.

This also makes the main plot point to have Rachel find Samara and release her body. Not that Samara is leading them on a wild goose chase simply to waste time so she could kill Noah. Samara's main goal was to spread her curse, not to stop it. Samara wasting time, somehow knowing Rachel would try to get to the bottom of the images on the tape, would be completely counterproductive. World Wide spread of her curse is her one goal. This also adds a unique twist to the film. Typical ghost stories lean towards satiating a ghost, letting them tell their story through finding their deceased remains. This makes Samara that much more evil. She wants her curse propigated, but she already has the means for that....the tape. She simply wants out of the well, to unleash what has been sealed down there for so long (perhaps why the well was picked in the first place...to hint at containment in case the murder attempt failed). I think releasing her allows her to crawl up out of the well like in the finale. Making her even more powerful than before.

PS . The water on the doorhandle / floor was a moot point. Noahs TV was sweating water before we even see Samara crawling out. Mearly by her presence (seen and unseen) water follows.

Any thoughts?

Edited by: CptObvious at: 11/26/02 9:29:42 pm
StrangenessDSS
further down the Spiral
(11/26/02 9:57:13 pm)
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Re: New Theory : Samara released from the Well
That's pretty much the same as my thoughts, but I have one more point to add...

Samara kills through fear. She has to have the victim at a certain level of fear before she can kill them. That's another reason for the seven days... to give herself time to scare the victim, until she can kill them. By the end of the seven days, merely showing Katie the picture of the well was enough to push her over the edge.

However, Noah would have been a different story. Believing that he's stopped the curse, he'd countered most of the fear. Merely showing him the well wouldn't be enough to enable Samara to kill him. However, because Samara had been removed from the well, she was able to come out of the TV and scare Noah to death. If it had been otherwise, Samara would have been unable to kill Noah, and her influence over him would have waned. So if Noah had believed that the curse was ended, and Samara had not been removed from the well, Noah would have escaped the curse.

"Zebes has fallen. All ground personnel... killed by the Hunter clad in metal..." -Space Pirate log, Metroid Prime.

inteferon
everyone will suffer
(11/26/02 10:04:54 pm)
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Re: New Theory : Samara released from the Well
Good point, StrangenessDSS, because when Noah first sees the well after the TV comes on, he pulls up a chair to watch - as though more fascinated than fearful. It's only when the hair plops over the lip of the well that Noah starts to lose it.

Edited by: inteferon at: 11/27/02 3:43:08 am
KuraiSoma 
out from the well
(11/27/02 2:30:32 am)
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Re: New Theory : Samara released from the Well
thought Id adressed this as it just (re?)dawned on me. Just like the evolution of the cursed tape being based on OUR viewpoint (as those who have watched it once) perhaps the reason we couldn't yet see Samara was because we hadn't seen the actual tape. We watch it along with Rachel for the first time, and I dont recall any more 'distortions' afterwards.

rustonmire
further down the Spiral
(11/27/02 3:31:20 am)
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the only hole I can see in your theory is...
When Aiden watches the video we (and rachel) clearly see Samara's arm and hair start to come over the lip of the well. By your theory this would not be possible since she has not been freed from the well yet. Or are you saying that she could get free, but just not come through the tv? Not sure.

On the other hand... your distortion theory is quite interesting and persuasive. I also wonder about how our point of view is following Rachel's. I think there are certain things we see only because Rachel can see them since she watched the tape. Most notably, the aforementioned scene with Aiden watching the tape. Only we and Rachel see Samara's arm... because we are further into the curse... I am sure Aiden just see's the well... then static.

inteferon
everyone will suffer
(11/27/02 4:03:57 am)
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Re: New Theory : Samara released from the Well
Having given your theory some more thought, I will observe the following:

This theory works mostly if we assume that the camera is an objective observer of the events throughout. There are reasons to believe that the camera was not entirely an objective observer (E.G. death positions). If the camera did omit details, it may have omitted details of Samara emerging from the well (metaphorically) and even slurping through Katie’s TV (whether actually or in Katie’s mind). One main reason that the camera may not want to have shown us that is because it would have short-circuited the whole film right there in the first ten minutes. For the first-time viewer, that was just a well on Katie’s TV, and the mystery for the movie to solve was why exactly that well represented a menace. My point is that we may not be totally sure what Samara may have or may not have been capable of while still in the well.

CgChick09 
everyone will suffer
(11/27/02 6:07:36 am)
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Re: New Theory : Samara released from the Well
"However, because Samara had been removed from the well, she was able to come out of the TV and scare Noah to death." Whao! Good point there. I never thought of it that way. Wait, so Samara didnt come out of Katies tv then?

SSJPabs 
further down the Spiral
(11/27/02 7:32:52 am)
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Re: New Theory : Samara released from the Well
We don't know.

Katie might only have BELIEVED that Samara was physically coming out. It might have just been a psycho-spiritual projection into her mind.

Rachael
citizen of the Loopworld
(11/27/02 9:26:53 am)
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I like it
I like the idea that Samara has to ratchet up her scariness factor in relation to her victim. She would have had to spell it all out for Noah because he's a video geek who just witnessed her body being found. He's totally at ease that morning and when the well pops up his first thought is "Hey-that's familiar".


Hmm, so in order to kill me, Samara would just have to inflate a paper bag and pop it behind my head.

CgChick09 
everyone will suffer
(11/27/02 10:27:41 am)
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Re: I like it
Ok, i dont think taking samara out of the well made a difference at all. People still have that idea that Samara did come out of Katies tv upstairs while becca was in the room. Thats why she went all psycho. Why else would she have those powers she had when she told Racheal how many days she had left?

Ghetto Ring
everyone will suffer
(11/27/02 12:57:38 pm)
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Re: I like it
Some interesting stuff until you consider one thing:

BECCA SAW SAMARA


At least that's the agreed upon theory. To make this theory be able to stand, you need a way to explain the insanity and partial control samara had of becca. And I don't think just seeing katie's dead corpse will do it (although seeing her face rotting before your very eyes might)

-One man, one obsession: The Ring!

CptObvious
further down the Spiral
(11/27/02 3:20:42 pm)
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Re: I like it
How are we sure Becca saw Samara. Thats pure conjecture at this point (until a sequel). I think Becca witnessed what happened to Katie, being in the room while Katies body begins to rot is enough to send anyone to the loony bin. Becca having said powers may be simply because she was exposed to Samara...no proof she actually saw her. Even still...she may have seen the distortion that was Samara at the beginning moving towards Katie and eventually killing her.

Good points about Aidan watching the tape. I have only seen the movie 1 time and do not recollect seeing a hand coming up out of the well...not to say it didnt happen, since I have seen it mentioned here numerous times...I just didnt catch it

I also like the idea that we may have not seen Samara at the beginning because we hadnt watched the tape with Rachel yet. This would be an extremely crafty way of making the movie more "first person" so to speak. We are party to all the changes as well as the characters on screen. It makes sense that after having viewed the tape, a few days later we can see Samara begin to emerge...perhaps if Rachel had not stopped the tape...Samara would have come out to some point and then static would appear again...Only at 7 days does Samara eventually make it to the physical plane of your TV....what a great theory

One pitfall though...We cannot see her because we hadnt watched the tape...so we see the disturbance in the TV..nothing more...BUT Katie whips around really quick when that happens, to fast to miss Samara had she actually been there for Katie to see

Edited by: CptObvious at: 11/27/02 3:31:24 pm
StrangenessDSS
further down the Spiral
(11/27/02 4:08:17 pm)
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Re: I like it
About Becca's insanity... I think it was not caused directly by Samara, but rather by the psychic powers she gained. Her proximity to Samara, possibly witnessing Katie's death... it opened up some sort of new sight for her. She could actually see the distortion as Samara... and she could see many other things she'd never seen before. While Katie's death certainly helped, it was the world she once knew being turned upside down that really drove her insane.

JustaPinoy
further down the Spiral
(11/28/02 2:56:44 pm)
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Re: I like it
Ok so if Becca has never seen Samara (At least come out of the TV), why was she so scared/worried about the TV she saw in the Mental Ward? I want to agree with you guys but this question keeps popping up in my head...

Emmerdale001
further down the Spiral
(11/28/02 3:38:50 pm)
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Reply
I think it's fairly obvious to anyone here that Samara's power is so strong that it can punch a hole into our reality. Whether or not Samara actually crawled out of Katie's tv, we will probably not know, but it is very clear based on the evidence we have seen that Samara's presence exerts such an influence on our corporal reality as to be able to affect the life of a person (i.e. Katie's death and her unfortunate friends) regardless of whether Samara crawled out of her television or not. The Frighteners runs off a similar concept where a killer continues to kill from beyond the grave by reaching into people's chests in order to crush their hearts.

Assuming that releasing Samara from the well allows her to fully manifest in our world in a physical or even semi-physical form, I believe we can still assume that the end result is the same: The victim dies.

Becca's situation is fascinating. We presume she was in the room Katie died in. If she was, was she in the closet, behind the bed, or under the bed? If Samara did emerge from Katie's television, was Becca in the room to see? Did Samara actually emerge downstairs and run upstairs to open Katie's door and thus encounter Becca? This might account for the pool of water at the base of Katie's door and the wet door knob, no? Did Becca even see Katie die? Or did she find Katie after death? Could Katie's mother have found Katie first instead of Becca? And what the hell did Becca see that night!? What was it that was so horrible, so terrorizing that it drove her into psychosis???

Then one has to account for Becca knowing what will happen to Rachel in the time she has left. My best bet is that Becca was so traumatized that night that it altered her perception of reality to the point that it allowed her to see things others cannot. The same similarity can be drawn from The Frighteners as well where Michael J. Fox's character became able to see ghosts after a massive car accident, a traumatic event. Perhaps Becca saw not only Rachel in the interrogation room but something else as well, the curse on Rachel and when it's due to pass for Rachel...

inteferon
everyone will suffer
(11/28/02 3:42:30 pm)
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Re: I like it
She didn't strike me as being that scared/worried by the TV. She looked at it blankly and walked on. I recall a knowledgeable Ringworm mention on another thread that one of the Japanese sequels shows Becca's counterpart reacting much more strongly to TVs (and for good reason) - and maybe the remake producers borrowed the idea from there. Strictly based on what is shown in The Ring and Ringu, I don't think that we have enough information to draw firm conclusions about Becca's attitude to TVs; and not knowing which way the sequel will go, it may be premature to rely too heavily on the events in the Japanese sequels.

Additionally, in Ringu (if I recall correctly), 'Becca' went to the toilet downstairs after the phone rang and admonished 'Katie' to not go upstairs without her. I did not see any evidence or have reason to believe (in Ringu) that 'Becca' did go upstairs prior to 'Katie's' final encounter with Sadako. Furthermore, 'Becca' doesn't even figure in Ringu after that point - i.e. no nuthouse scene.

Edited by: inteferon at: 11/28/02 3:50:49 pm
theringkeeper
Sadako slave
(11/28/02 4:59:47 pm)
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your theories are good but some are wrong.
you say that the water is from sweating of the TV, no it is samara's dress (she was in a well so definately she is wet) now, the idea behind her now being released is good. now no one needs to watch the tape for her to get into there lives because she doesnt need a gateway to be let out ( it takes 7 days for her to leave the well to kill ) now she can go through anyone's TV no matter if they've watched it or not. now no one knows for sure but these are my theories.

O Deka K
citizen of the Loopworld
(11/28/02 5:26:47 pm)
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Re: your theories are good but some are wrong.
There WAS water coming out of the TV. There was a shot from behind and to the side of the TV, which showed water running down its side. It then panned out from behind the TV to show Noah sitting on the floor watching Samara come out of the well.

I don't believe that bringing Samara out of the well lets her kill anyone without using the tape, but that's my opinion. I believe that it's simply a matter for the sequel, and we have yet to see the repercussions.

As for Becca/Masami, the first part of the scene was directly from Ring 2. Masami had the partition between her and the TV because she was afraid of it. However, when she saw the glow of the TV through the flimsy partition, she became fixated on it. The reason that Becca looked at the TV could be different, though.

Regarding what happened to Becca, I posted my theory here:

Becca's POV

---
Before you die... you GOTTA see The Ring!

Doctor Scott
Sadako slave
(11/28/02 8:36:37 pm)
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Re: I like it
"People still have that idea that Samara did come out of Katies tv upstairs while becca was in the room. Thats why she went all psycho. Why else would she have those powers she had when she told Racheal how many days she had left? "

Because Becca is related to Samara somehow by blood.
Also Noah's girlfriend is related to both of them. Notice that Becca and the girlfriend are very near the scene of the crime when the crime occurs.

(By the way, this is my first post, and I just want to say you people are brilliant!)

InfluxDatum 
everyone will suffer
(11/28/02 9:37:57 pm)
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Samara visible or not
Prior to Noah's scene, Samara manifested herself in the physical world as a 'warp' with humanly figure (Katie's death and Aidan's visit to Katie's room). She was also invisible (nails pop and water spills from the TV on Rachel's scene at the well). On TV, she could display herself visibly (Aidan finishes watching the tape and Rachel sees samara crawling from the well). Noah's scene happens after samara's body is released from the well. Everyone saw samara come out of the TV, but she was not flesh and blood. She projected her image from the TV. She changed her size and we see a glitch go through her as she starts to face Noah. I just don't think that releasing samara from the well changed anything. We learn from the movie that Samara can manifest in 4 different ways or at least three:

1. As a warp. There is no TV for her to project her image or she chooses not to project her image through the TV. But she can move in the physical world as a warp.

2. Invisible. She conceals her presence. This might be part of 1). Maybe as she moves from point 'a' to point 'b' in a room, we can see a warp.

3. As a projection from the TV, in physical form - detached from the TV screen. The TV is turned on with the image of the well displayed. This is what Noah saw in his studio as samara comes out of the tv and what Katie saw as she opened the door to her room. This is how Becca saw Samara.

4. No physical manifestation. The TV turns on and samara is to be seen crawling out of the well.

Edited by: InfluxDatum  at: 11/28/02 10:34:38 pm
KuraiSoma 
out from the well
(11/28/02 9:50:48 pm)
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On the topic of becca:
Well; thought Id share a few more thoughts on this matter since (no blame, I know its more or less a mess) not many of you have been here terribly long, or just havent crawled through the millions of post theorizing certain events. My instincts tell me that Samara's appearance to her victims on their last seconds of life is purely cerebral, a psychic attack as it were. To back this up, all I can do is point at the director's cunning use of the camera; something which does not nescesarily always shows us 'reality' but the world of dreams and hallucinations.

However, before I hit upon this idea my original theory was over just how Samara could amass a physical form and influence matter. If you allow yourself to believe that Samara is some sort of concious electromagnetic entity, or that she is simply a ghost that kept her powers to influence things electromagnetically (brief summary, all living beings produce an electromagnetic field which is directly related to their health.. furthermore, this would allow her to exert control over any electronic device, photographs,xrays, electrical impulses in and effecting the brain.. the list goes on and on, there is a near infinite list of ways that such power could display itself) its possible to [easily] explain number(s) of ways that she could have done what she has.

Now, back to Becca: If you take the latter theory as true; you can surmise that when Samara gathers a physical form (think magnetics again, it wouldnt be hard to simulate a corporeal body with such fine tuned abilities) that the force of her will, maybe even just the fact that such a malovent electromagnetic force has come knocking, leaves a lasting effect on those even in her proximity. Think of it as a spiritual/cerebral taint, a cancer if you will; a tiny shade of the full force herself, creating a link to those also ensnared in her net.

If she has this much power, why doesn't she just unleash it upon the world as a whole? Thats an easy one, she wants everyone to suffer exactly as she did; she leaves survivors so that she may spread her history and her pain through them. Perhaps she even spares them as a sort of 'thank you' for acknowleging her existance, her past, and experiancing all of the pain in her life up until her death.


*side note* Doctor Scott: I have no issues with people theorizing, but when creating a theory isn't it best to start with actual things we know to be 'truth' and work up from there? Granted there is a (small) common bond between the two of them, it sure screams coincidence to me. If there were clues laid to this possibility during the movie, I'd give you all the credit I could..

InfluxDatum 
everyone will suffer
(11/28/02 10:11:22 pm)
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Re: On the topic of becca:
"If she has this much power, why doesn't she just unleash it upon the world as a whole?"

She can't because there is an aspect (from the movie) that has to do with a curse or a virus. She can't kill those who are unwilling to partake with her death or life experience. The tape is just it, a window or a door to her life. Once you watch it, you have signed some sort of ownership to samara.

It is not about powerful electromagnetic fields can be. Everything in the human body or animals works by electric pulses and magnetic fields. Ghost manifest and product magnetic fields. The earth is a huge dipole.

Kunimitsuu
Sadako slave
(11/28/02 10:15:45 pm)
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Re: On the topic of becca:
"How are we sure Becca saw Samara. Thats pure conjecture at this point (until a sequel). I think Becca witnessed what happened to Katie, being in the room while Katies body begins to rot is enough to send anyone to the loony bin."

We KNOW that she saw her, cause we see it in the sequal of the original version. She becomes permantly haunted by Samara after that, which is why she knows things.

O Deka K
citizen of the Loopworld
(11/28/02 10:31:27 pm)
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Re: On the topic of becca
Kunimitsuu, the remake does not have to follow the original (especially its sequel) exactly. Ringu and Ring 2 strayed quite far from the original novels. Similarly, the remake and its sequel(s) could go in an entirely diffferent direction. I think Becca saw Samara, but we don't know that.

They may not remake Ring 2 but write something completely new instead. In fact, I'd like to see them do that. Ring 2 had some excellent scenes (I loved the "sliding" scene), but I didn't like the techno mumbo-jumbo.

---
Before you die... you GOTTA see The Ring!

inteferon
everyone will suffer
(11/29/02 1:36:26 am)
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Re: On the topic of becca
My lasting impression that has stayed with me on a gut level (so don't ask for proof), is that everyone who sees the curse tape and does not make a copy in seven days will see the ring (and/or Samara death glare) and will die.

Becca, as far as I know, did not see the tape and has, IMO, zero reason to encounter Samara directly. Furthermore, if encountering Samara directly results in the death of the victim and if Becca did encounter a PO-ed Samara, then my logic tells me that Becca would be dead.

To spell it out my opinion, I don't think that Becca saw Samara. There's not visual proof (camera showing us), and it flies in the face of the basic premise of the curse. There are a number of other plausible explanations for why Becca may have gone loco pony besides "seeing Samara" and I won't belabor them again.

Edited by: inteferon at: 11/29/02 1:54:29 am
Emmerdale001
further down the Spiral
(11/29/02 1:46:54 am)
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Reply
Wouldn't the onus of death lie with Samara though? Doesn't she initiate the death of victims that have seen the tape? If so, wouldn't that mean that seeing Samara is not in itself deadly if someone like Becca, a bystander, saw her?

inteferon
everyone will suffer
(11/29/02 1:54:09 am)
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Re: Reply
Why should Becca necessarily SEE Samara? Becca hasn't seen the curse tape and is not cursed at that point. Samara appears to kill her victims by being seen by them. There was never any evidence that she attacks her victims physically. My impression was that just by showing up (physically or mentally), the terror was sufficient to kill her victims. By this logic, Becca should also be dead if she saw Samara.

Felix Underhill
manipulator of the Virus
(11/29/02 2:08:18 am)
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Re: Reply
inteferon stated: "My impression was that just by showing up (physically or mentally), the terror was sufficient to kill her victims."

Exactly why it would seem that some sort of link has been forged between Samara and her victim. Just another reason to anticipate the sequel. :)

Sadako's Apprentice

StrangenessDSS
further down the Spiral
(11/29/02 2:08:58 am)
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Re: New Theory : Samara released from the Well
Methinks you ought to watch Noah's death again... he didn't die until quite a while after he first saw Samara.

Emmerdale001
further down the Spiral
(11/29/02 2:15:09 am)
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Reply
Quote:
Why should Becca necessarily SEE Samara?


I never said that Becca saw Samara. What I did say was that it could be that just seeing Samara is not enough for a person to die. If one watches the tape, then seeing Samara is just an indication that the person has very little time left because she's there to claim the victim, so it could stand to reason that seeing Samara alone is not enough to die unless, of course, one watched the tape as well...

Edited by: Emmerdale001 at: 11/29/02 2:17:42 am
InfluxDatum 
everyone will suffer
(11/29/02 2:23:21 am)
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Re: Reply
inteferon, you are associating the 'seeing' and 'dying' together. There is no evidence in the film to suggest that if you see samara, you will die or that if samara sees you, you will die. Or that if you never watched the tape, you would not be able to see samara or be seen by her. There are no facts supporting your opinion. Death comes to samara's victims not by fear alone. It has more to do with what Samara does to her victims when she establishes a line of sight. Those bodies had experienced some major physical transformation after their encounter with samara. Look at Katie's corpse in the closet. Fear does not do that. Sight does not do that. Seeing does not do that. There is a transfer than happens between samara and her victims. This transfer of something causes their death and body changes.

Samara had no reason to kill Becca. Becca never watched the tape, she never had the curse or the virus, but the effects of seeing samara (and I believe becca saw samara) come out of the TV and then her friend Katie die the way she did, really affected her deeply and psychologically. Katie's parents never ended up in the nuthouse, but Becca did.



Sadako Lego

"Life would not be the same without Lego"

Edited by: InfluxDatum  at: 11/29/02 2:36:46 am
InfluxDatum 
everyone will suffer
(11/29/02 2:33:54 am)
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Re: New Theory : Samara released from the Well
"Methinks you ought to watch Noah's death again... he didn't die until quite a while after he first saw Samara. "

Exactly. Noah was scared when samara came out of the TV. He did not die from fear. He died when samara established an eye to eye contact with him. His body showed significant signs of wear and tear, which leads me to believe that there was more there than merely fear. Eyes are the windows to the soul.



Sadako Lego

"Life would not be the same without Lego"

InfluxDatum 
everyone will suffer
(11/29/02 2:36:13 am)
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Re: Reply
"Wouldn't the onus of death lie with Samara though? Doesn't she initiate the death of victims that have seen the tape? If so, wouldn't that mean that seeing Samara is not in itself deadly if someone like Becca, a bystander, saw her? "

yup.



Sadako Lego

"Life would not be the same without Lego"

inteferon
everyone will suffer
(11/29/02 2:42:55 am)
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Re: Reply
Cool. We agree to disagree on this point. That's what makes analyzing this movie stimulating and fun (for me anyway). I was merely expressing a gut feel. My gut tells me that "seeing the ring" means that you will die. If "the ring" is the well corona at the start of the samara entrance, or the well mouth in the broadcast, AND Becca was in the room - then she would have seen it and would be dead instead of catatonic. If "the ring" is Samara's Rob Zombie eye, and Becca saw it, then she should be dead. So maybe Becca wasn't in the room and maybe that's why she's still alive. Or Becca had her eyes closed all the time. But the movie's tagline is very specific: If you see the ring, you WILL die.

*EDIT*
In response to this: "Methinks you ought to watch Noah's death again... he didn't die until quite a while after he first saw Samara".

This actually helps to make my point, thanks. Noah saw. Noah died.

Edited by: inteferon at: 11/29/02 2:53:50 am
InfluxDatum 
everyone will suffer
(11/29/02 2:52:11 am)
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Re: Reply
the actual tag of the the movie is 'Before you die, you see the Ring'. It clearly implies that the victim will see a ring prior to his/her death. This *DOES NOT* imply that seeing a Ring means that you will die.



Sadako Lego

"Life would not be the same without Lego"

Edited by: InfluxDatum  at: 11/29/02 2:55:38 am
inteferon
everyone will suffer
(11/29/02 2:59:00 am)
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Re: Reply
Thanks, Influx. At this point I will disengage, as I have stated my opinion completely and have nothing more to add. I invite others to contribute their own insights and opinions on this matter.

Emmerdale001
further down the Spiral
(11/29/02 3:17:18 am)
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Reply
The tagline of the movie may be a reference to Samara's eye, so if one did watch the tape, and his time did run out resulting in the appearance of Samara, then it is conceivable that the last thing he or she will ever see alive is Samara's left eye as she casts her doom gaze upon the victim...

O Deka K
citizen of the Loopworld
(11/29/02 10:27:14 am)
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Re: Samara and death
And my gut feeling is that seeing the tape causes Samara to come and kill you, while seeing Samara causes the men in white coats to come and take you.

---
Before you die... you GOTTA see The Ring!

inteferon
everyone will suffer
(11/29/02 2:01:11 pm)
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Re: Samara and death
ODK:

What possibly started this heated debate is this statement (of fact?):

“BECCA SAW SAMARA. At least that's the agreed upon theory.”

I am not a party to this agreement.

Hands up all those who:
- Saw Becca actually go upstairs after giving the telephone handset to Katie
- Saw Becca actually enter Katie’s room (while Katie was still downstairs)
- Saw Samara emerging from the well on Katie’s TV
- Saw Samara in the room when Katie died
- Saw Becca somewhere in the Katie’s room when Katie died.

Perhaps my observational skills aren’t that good, but I don’t remember seeing any of that. It has also been plausibly theorized that merely seeing the well could have been enough to do in Katie -- and because Noah thought the curse was over, he needed to see more to make him croak. I did not originate that theory, but I do endorse it.

Since I saw no visual (or even anecdotal) evidence to confirm that Becca was even in Katie’s room or that Samara even emerged for Katie, I cannot conclusively support the theory that Becca saw Samara. Now if Becca was in the bathroom (or rummaging through Katie’s mom’s room for Vicodins), heard Katie scream, discovered her all balled-up and whacked-out, realized that whatever did that might still be around, that may have been enough to send her over the edge. After all, the urban legend was making its rounds and all who heard it may have been in a trippy head space. My point is that whatever Becca may have seen or experienced during Katie's death is probably pure conjecture.

KuraiSoma 
out from the well
(11/29/02 2:46:18 pm)
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Re: Samara and death
as becca's whereabouts are all conjecture, so are the 'actual' facts of samara's method of killing. We're still left with no way to explain how the bodies went here or there after their apparent death scenes.. I had my little theory; and while I think its a decent explanation, Id sure appreciate something concrete to be laid out. Theorizing is a lot of fun, but when all of these unknowns get clustered into a single argument; we just end up spinning around and round.. let's all hope and pray the remake's sequel shows up sooner than later ;p

inteferon
everyone will suffer
(11/29/02 3:09:09 pm)
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Re: Samara and death
I agree, KuraiSoma. However long it takes for the sequel to come out, it's too long a wait for me :) In the mean time it's fun to come up with pet theories. If we can keep the empirical evidence separate from inferences and conjecture, I think that we'll get side-tracked less often.

*Edit*
Having said that, it continues to fascinate me how three different witnesses to the same car accident can come up with three strikingly diffrent versions of the actual event. That's what makes it a geat film, IMO. We weren't spoon-fed all the details for a change, allowing for all this fun mental masturbation. I hope that the sequel is equally mysterious instead of just a reconciliation exercise.

Edited by: inteferon at: 11/29/02 3:22:48 pm
xXsephiroXx
shambler
(11/29/02 7:26:09 pm)
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whoaness...
y'all really thought this thru didn't y'all?? whoa... it's not dat serious u guys... and u pplz talking about victims having certain amount of fear??!! wat da hell, samara juss a ghost, not a psychologist~ she's ain't gonna kno how we feeling... but i ain't gonna hate... i respect all y'all's 'theoriez'...

miharu
the chosen infected
(11/29/02 7:29:23 pm)
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Re: whoaness...
i think i speak for everyone when i say 'whaaat?'

-miharu

InfluxDatum 
everyone will suffer
(11/29/02 7:49:05 pm)
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Re: Samara and death
inteferon, there are things that are not too clear and there are other things that are very clear about this film.

For instance, did Becca see Samara? I believe that she did, but there is no proof from this film. It just comes together with theorizing. I watched the ring again today. I heard a toilet flush right after Becca had left and Katie was getting some juice. Right after the toilet flush, the TV in the living room turns on. Becca was in the bathroom and she was done with her business and heading out somewhere. I presume it was Katie's room or a guest room.

If she went to Katie's room, then the explanation of the events to come is pretty simple and you are familiar with our theory. If not, I am to assume that there was a guest room. I rather not. But lets say that there was. Would not you think that Becca would have responded to Katie's shouts about Becca playing games with her with the remote control when the TV in the living room turned on by itself? But let's assume that Becca is deaf, so she did not hear Katie at all. At the end, Becca finds Katie dead and somehow puts two and two...that katie died because of watching the tape and that how she died was because of samara. It is hard to believe unless we assume that Becca is as much psychic as Aidan is.

This is why I still believe that Becca went from the bathroom straight to Katie's room and then few moments after, samara appears. Becca is too fearful to react to anything. She sees everything. She knows Katie is going to die and when that happens, she goes crazy. At the nuthouse, this explains why the nurse is trying to keep her away from watching the TV. She had seen the tv, samara and katie's death. The rest of the story you know...

The concretes of the film include how samara killed. We know it was not the fear alone because samara initiated her victim's death by causing their hearts to stop and bodies to transform. We also know that she killed those that watched the tape and not those that did not. We also know that Rachel was spared because she copied the tape and Aidan watched it. We also know that before you die, you see the ring and not the other way around necessarily. This list is incomplete, but it is just to give you an idea.




Sadako Lego

"Life would not be the same without Lego"

KuraiSoma 
out from the well
(11/29/02 9:16:43 pm)
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Re: Samara and death
oddly enough, unlike in the original screen-walking scene (Ringu 2) I thought Becca looked more curious/interested in the TV than even remotely scared. She appeared cautious, but intrigued. Perhaps in the sequel they'll be using Becca's character in place of the schoolgirl that the cameraman (sorry, been a while since I watched 2 so the names arent coming to mind) dealt with who

*spoiler*


was later revealed to become a sadako clone.

inteferon
everyone will suffer
(11/29/02 10:30:39 pm)
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Becca - another view
Thanks, Influx. You make some good points. Your theory is plausible in most respects if we examine the movie on a very literal level as a simple horror film with a ‘real’, honest-to-goodness (heh) demon. I realize that not everyone can or wants to accept the movie as anything other than that, but I continue to view the movie more as a psychological thriller. Allow me to present what I believe is a plausible Becca explanation on that level, and I will try to address the various objections that you have raised. Note: I’ll be mixing facts and conjecture below to allow the theory to flow smoothly. Let me also say that I have gone out of my way to present this other explanation in realistic, boring terms – but I do it to make a point.

---

The urban myth of the curse tape has been circulating at Katie’s high school for perhaps years, but rises to a new level of intensity in the past week because some local students claim to have actually seen it. Katie and Becca are really good friends and playfully rib each other a lot. Evidence of this is Katie’s fake choking when Becca tells her the curse story, and Becca pretending to be all freaked out when she answers the phone. Becca has at this time no reason to believe that the myth is actually true – it’s just that talking about creepy stuff like that is what some teens like to do.

However, knowing her friend well, Becca does notice that she got a good rise out of Katie because she observes how freaked out Katie was when the phone rang. So she decides to take the prank to the next level by hiding after Katie is through talking to her mom. She may have stayed in the bathroom to do a few lines or hid in the laundry – the location doesn’t matter. Katie at this time maybe semi-believes the curse and she knows that technically, the curse is supposed to climax any minute. This puts her in a highly suggestible state of mind and normally innocent things like a TV turning on by itself (sticking remote button? Becca works another remote?) or the fridge opening by itself (weak magnets?) start to send Katie over the edge. Naturally, Verbinski throws in cool visual and audio sound effects to heighten the creep factor and to better dramatize Katie’s state of mind.

Katie calls out to Becca as the latter sits snickering in her hiding place. Katie runs up the stairs and is totally but totally freaking out by now. If you whisper boo behind her now, she will have a heart attack on the spot. Her mind starts to go snaky. She remembers that there was a well on the curse tape and therefore imagines that she’s seeing water dripping and pooling. She opens the door and the first thing that her eyes are drawn to is the TV. She is hyperaware of the TV because she associates it strongly with how she first became familiar with the curse. She fully expects the TV to be on like the one downstairs. Images from her first viewing of the curse tape are flashing through her mind and she hallucinates that they are actually on the TV (once again Verbinski helps to illustrate this). At that moment, Becca sneaks up behind her and pinches Katie’s butt (or whatever). Katie let’s out a long, ear-piercing scream and, in her terror, the blood drains from her face (physiologically, this does happen and once again Verbinski illustrates this with a bit of exaggeration for entertainment value). Katie starts flipping out, pummeling the air and dives into the closet. She bunches down in a fetal position as her mind and body continue to undergo extreme levels of stress. She screams and screams inconsolably until she just succumbs to the shock of it all and dies (also a distinct physiological possibility).

Becca is freaking out along with Katie, first thinking that Katie is pulling a fast one back on her, but then notices Katie slump down dead. Becca freaks out and tries to revive Katie. She realizes that with her stupid prank she has killed her best friend and the guilt of it is too much for her to bear sanely. She starts having crazy thoughts that maybe the curse is real. She becomes catatonic and is put into psychiatric care. In the loony bin we are led to believe that Becca is afraid of TVs, but that appears to be an underdeveloped theme borrowed from one of the Japanese sequels. Possibly in her screaming, Katie makes it clear to Becca that the TV is the source of all her terror, and Becca internalizes that.

The parents come home, discover Katie’s body and can’t get a sensible word out of sobbing, gibbering Becca. The police arrive, the coroner does his/her thing and the case is closed. Nobody observes that there was water on the floor because it was all in Katie’s head. Katie’s mom doesn’t observe that her daughter turned into a ghoul, she just makes a passing reference that Katie’s face was not normal (a mask of terror?). She doesn’t observe that the body was hideously decomposed, but merely expresses confusion over why a young, healthy girl would die of sudden heart failure. She begs Rachel to investigate, and Rachel takes the whole thing to the next level.

---

Now I admit that this is a very unsatisfying way to interpret the first part of the movie. It is much more scary or entertaining to literally believe that Samara came through the TV and did a number on both Katie and Becca. But I do believe that the preceding theory plausibly illustrates that there can be a number of explanations for what exactly went down and it isn’t a strict requirement for Becca to have ‘seen’ what Katie saw.

In the end, the truth is in the eye of the beholder, and whatever level of interpretation works for you is fine with me.

InfluxDatum 
everyone will suffer
(11/29/02 11:11:01 pm)
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Re: Becca - another view
when I get a chance, I'll read the rest of your reply. In reply to your first paragraph,

"Your theory is plausible in most respects if we examine the movie on a very literal level as a simple horror film with a ‘real’, honest-to-goodness (heh) demon. I realize that not everyone can or wants to accept the movie as anything other than that, but I continue to view the movie more as a psychological thriller."

I do want to point out that you *can't* view The Ring as a psychological thriller exclusively and limit it to the nature - to physics. Because of this character - samara, is very much dead in a well, but yet she is alive in some sort of state and continues to curse/infect people with a video tape she created from the grave. The manner she kills her victims can't be explained in mere physical or natural terms. She is able to manifest herself physically through a tv. The bodies of the victims show significant changes to suggest that there was something supernatural about their deaths.

I am not using demonology as you are indicating to explain my points. I am using the facts within the film to explain plausible scenarios. And the facts within the film indicate that the film itself is not a mere psychological thriller. It deals with supernatural elements.




Sadako Lego

"Life would not be the same without Lego"

Edited by: InfluxDatum  at: 11/29/02 11:11:28 pm
inteferon
everyone will suffer
(11/29/02 11:32:27 pm)
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Re: Becca - another view
Influx: In the same way that it may be ‘no fun’ to view this film in purely dry, realistic terms, it strikes that that it would also be ‘no fun’ to see it as just another rampaging ghoul story (it’s been done sooooo many times before).

What makes the film so absorbing for me is to start out by relying on my own real-world knowledge and experience, and asking myself (at any give time, depending on my mood) how much supernatural stuff I want to allow in order for things to ‘work’.

Obviously a lot of supernatural allowances have to be made – some plot points would make absolutely no sense without them. But for me, it’s the willingness to consider multiple levels that permits the movie to be a complex, dynamic entity that ‘changes colors’ from day to day depending on my headspace.

That’s why I’m here still analyzing this thing to death. Why are you (apparently) doing the same if everything is so cut and dried for you?

SugaRae113
shambler
(11/30/02 2:36:22 pm)
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Samara is REAL
First of all, this WHOLE movie was based on a true story, you can see it if you go to www.google.com and type in "Anna Morgan" you will find that Anna Morgan owned a ranch and had a husband named Richard Morgan, and of course their daughter Samara. Anna had multiple miscarriages and when she finally had gotten Samara, she was obsessed. When Samara went missing, Anna killed herself in grief. Anna DID NOT MURDER SAMARA. Just though I'd clear that up, because Samara's cousin seemed upset that they would base this entire movie on her family tragedy. Another point, what if Noah, when he saw Samara coming out of the TV, what if he just ran downstairs? Or ran away before anything could happen, can you ACTUALLY avoid it? I mean if it were REALLY me, on the seventh day at 10:00 P.M. I'd be at a bar, or somewhere where I wasn't alone, it seemed SO simple, to just run away on the 7th day, I think you could go to a party until when Samara was supposed to make her appearence, you know? BE SOMEWHERE HAPPY, and without televison. Does anyone think there is actually a video like the one in "The Ring?" What if the only reason why we all aren't dead is because we didn't experience the movie ON TAPE? What happens when you can RENT it? What if someone actually makes a tape of the bizarre video and releases it into the world, what then? I need answers, does anyone have other thoughts? E-mail me at SugaRae113@aol.com
to give me answers or give me YOUR opinion?

**Keep in mind that I have only seen this movie once, and that I am only thirteen.

AngryVortex
further down the Spiral
(11/30/02 3:02:44 pm)
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Real Life
It's just a movie. I think Robert Konerka watched the video (not the movie, a copy of the cursed tape), but he's fine. Actually, we'll find out in an hour ;)

inteferon
everyone will suffer
(11/30/02 3:49:02 pm)
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Re: Samara is REAL
Persoanlly, I think that the curse deliberately steers the victim to isolate at the appointed hour. I think Samara operates according to some twisted yet basic rules: Rule one being only those chosen or unfortunate enough to watch the curse tape will see her when their time comes.

KuraiSoma 
citizen of the Loopworld
(11/30/02 4:30:56 pm)
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Re: Samara is REAL
SugaRae: Hate to break it to you, but those were teaser sites developed by dreamworks as a sort of advertisement. A big nod in their direction for creative use of the internet, but don't get suckered in by them. Somewhere on www.argn.com they list all of the involved sites, and they all lead to the same server.

inteferon
everyone will suffer
(11/30/02 7:43:54 pm)
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Re: Samara is REAL
Awwwwww, KuraiSoma. You spoiled it for her. He/She could have continued to flip-out deliciously for a few more days.... :evil

Edited by: inteferon at: 11/30/02 7:47:39 pm
miharu
the chosen infected
(11/30/02 8:11:31 pm)
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Re: Samara is REAL
man.. kids today are horribly gullible ;p

though i wish i had the naiveness to believe everything i read.. that would make movies like ring even better to experience. ^^

-miharu

KuraiSoma 
citizen of the Loopworld
(11/30/02 9:31:33 pm)
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Re: Samara is REAL
Maybe Im just too nice, but eh.. if I thought there was any fact behind it, I know even at the ripe old age of 19 I wouldve lost considerably more sleep ;p