Author Comment
Malfador
Sadako slave
(12/10/02 11:25:25 am)
Reply | Edit | Del All
Destroying the tape = ___?
This question was put to the screenwriter, but never really answered (didn't seem that Ehren really understood the question - either that, or he didn't know the answer)....

When Rachel gets home after finding Noah's corpse and destroys the tape in frustration, she then realizes that the making of the copy is what saved her. Considering this, she had Haden do the same and make his own copy, saving him. Correct?

Okay. So if making a copy automatically saves you, but destroying the original that you made the copy from does nothing, then couldn't Haden wait until his 7 days had passed and destroy the first copy, leaving only one copy of the tape? Then they're back to square one, before they even watched anything, right?

Therein lies what seems to be a bit of a plot hole. If you are able to destroy the original after copying it w/out consequence, then to what benefit is it to Samara for a copy to be made in the first place? If the entire reason for sparing their life is because they put one more copy into circulation, then that reason is betrayed by destroying the original. I would think that whoever destroyed a copy would revert to their penance.

-I've got the only wisdom-

mikejonas
moderator
(12/10/02 11:37:41 am)
Reply | Edit | Del
Re: Destroying the tape = ___?
It's because there's more to the rule. To save yourself, you have to make a copy of the tape AND SHOW IT TO SOMEONE ELSE, a plot element that, to be honest, wasn't as well conveyed as it could have been in the final cut of The Ring. There's a lengthy debate on the details of this rule over on the Sadako board (pub70.ezboard.com/ftherin...=130.topic ). Aidan won't be saved until he infects someone else with the curse.

Edited by: mikejonas at: 12/10/02 11:41:40 am
aramas
Sadako slave
(12/10/02 11:55:14 am)
Reply | Edit | Del
about making a copy
It's not making the copy that saves you from Samara, it's showing the copy to somene else and giving Samamra a victim to replace yourself with.

Rachael
citizen of the Loopworld
(12/10/02 4:37:24 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del
but..
It is correct then, per the facts as presented in the film, that all you really have to do is show someone else. It shouldn't have to be a copy. if there can be only one tape at any given time then copying isn't central to survival. That's just the conclusion Rachel came to.

Noah watched the original and Aiden watched the copy-we don't really know which one saved Rachel, now do we??

mikejonas
moderator
(12/10/02 7:23:15 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del
Re: but..
That's definitely up for debate (see that Cult of Sadako thread I linked to above)...whether or not the "make a copy" condition of the curse is true isn't evident in the final cut of The Ring (nor in the original Japanese trilogy), but it does seem to be the intent of the writers. In fact, it would've been clearer had they included the death of the innkeeper (which was shot but cut out of the movie)--it would've shown that having the original be seen by someone else (Rachel) wouldn't have been enough.

Malfador
Sadako slave
(12/11/02 10:09:10 am)
Reply | Edit | Del
Re: but..
Yep.. I still believe that making a copy is necessary. Now, as far as whether it's the actual copy or the original that you show the next person, I don't think that makes any difference. The point is that: A) you [i]make[/i] a copy, and B) you infect someone new by letting them view one of the tapes.

-I've got the only wisdom-

HotShot2387
out from the well
(12/11/02 9:47:11 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del
But...
The question that guy first had was what would happen if rachel just destroyed the tape off the bat. Would she die and then the curse would end? My theory is that samara would just project onto a tape used in the cabin

A pic will be here soon. hehe cant wait

mikejonas
moderator
(12/11/02 10:09:59 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del
Re: But...
However, it appears that Samara only encoded the tape (the original Katie and her friends and Rachel and Noah watched, and Rachel later destroyed) when Katie and her friends were using it in Cabin 12 to try and record a football game. One could then assume that Samara's encoding powers were limited to the cabin. If Rachel had destroyed the tape right after first watching it, she would be the only one to die, and Samara's spirit would've had to wait for another tape to come within range to make a new one...it could possibly have taken a long time, but had the resort stayed open (it was closed down--inexplicably--in the final cut of the movie), it wouldn't have been forever.

Had Rachel not realized what she did to escape the curse and destroyed both tapes, Aidan would've died. But the question lingers--would Samara's "spirit" and powers still inhabit the well, or is it elsewhere now that her body's been moved?

And here's another weakness of the "it doesn't matter which tape you show to the next victim--the original or the copy you made"--if more than one person watches the original, and then these cursees each make a copy, and then show the *original* to someone new, who escapes the curse? All of them? The one who was present when the new guy watched the tape (what if new guy watched it alone?) The one who handed the original to the new guy? Had the rule been restricted to the cursee's copy being viewed, the answer would be clearer.

rfunk79
Sadako slave
(12/11/02 10:44:32 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del
Re: But...
" (it was closed down--inexplicably--in the final cut of the movie)"

INEXPLICABLY??? Didn't they just find the body of a young girl down a well build underneath a cabin? Good enough reason for ME not to stay there. Also, I guess the scene where the guy running the place gets killed was cut out.

Also, I think it's more simple. You view the tape, once, twice a million times, you get affected. YOU MAKE A COPY and SHOW it to someone else THAT HASNT BEEN AFFECTED, you are cured, forever. The reason i say this is because Rachel watches the tape AFTER she made the copy and showed it to Aiden, yet she was still saved. Once you make a copy and show it, you've become sort of a servant of hers, doing what she wants, so she frees you from the evil spell. The tapes can be destroyed quite easily, so after you've showed it to someone who wasn't pre affected, your home free to destory the tape. Of course, that person will then die, without being able to make the tape. I am pretty positive on this, because otherwise Aiden could've just made a copy and showed his mom, thus ending the cycle. INstead he asks whats going to happen to the person they show it too.

" You don't want to hurt anyone."
" But I do."

samaras well
Sadako slave
(12/11/02 10:54:43 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del
Re: But...
The cabin was closed when rachel and noah went to find samara. It was closed before she was found.

Why?

Because the innkeeper watched the video and died:eek

Round we go
The World is Spinning
When it Stops, it's Just Beginning
Sun goes up
..........
Sun goes down
Then we all die

mikejonas
moderator
(12/11/02 11:37:02 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del
Re: But...
Quote:
Also, I think it's more simple. You view the tape, once, twice a million times, you get affected. YOU MAKE A COPY and SHOW it to someone else THAT HASNT BEEN AFFECTED, you are cured, forever.


That wasn't the issue I was raising. The thing is, the movie didn't quite articulate the "rule" well enough. Rachel came to a certain conclusion, and we bought into it (well, those of us who understood it, anyway), but given the situation as they played out in the final cut of the movie (that is, one where the innkeeper wasn't shown to have died and therefore, as far as the story is concerned, didn't die at all) would've allowed for the rule to be somewhat different from what Rachel (and we) concluded it to be--the rule could've easily been "you have to make a copy, and show either the copy or the original to someone else, cursed or not," or "you just have to show the original to someone else, cursed or not" and it would have still held up in light of the events of the movie.

The original Ring didn't fare any better--even though "the rule" was articulated better (thanks to the way they did the final scene) and was assumed to be true in the sequel, it falls apart under scrutiny when you learn that Reiko (Rachel), Ryuji (Noah) and Yoichi (Aidan) were all infected by the original tape, and it was a subsequent viewing of an already-cursed Ryuji (Noah) of the tape Reiko (Rachel) made that saved her. Even though Ehren Kruger patched over the apparent hole in "the rule" by making Aidan watch the copy, there's still nothing to contradict the possibility that an already-cursed Noah, in watching the original or watching the copy Rachel made, was the one who actually saved her. HAD the innkeeper death been kept in the movie, then it would've at least reinforced the requirement that a copy must be made.

Quote:
The cabin was closed when rachel and noah went to find samara. It was closed before she was found. Why? Because the innkeeper watched the video and died


Right...as we see Noah and Rachel drive into the Shelter Mountain resort, the sign says that the place has been closed down (not just closed, but shut down for good). Which raises another question...since (in the deleted scenes) Noah is the one who finds the dead innkeeper, who put up the "closed down" sign? Did the innkeeper shut down the place himself (the most likely scenario, but still leaves things unexplained)? Did people come by, not find the innkeeper and just close the place down, or did Samara go the extra mile and put up the sign after killing the innkeeper? :)


Edited by: mikejonas at: 12/11/02 11:46:18 pm
rfunk79
Sadako slave
(12/11/02 11:44:39 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del
Re: But...
Oh man my head hurts after thinking about this.... :\

" You don't want to hurt anyone."
" But I do."

mikejonas
moderator
(12/11/02 11:48:26 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del
Re: But...
Quote:
Oh man my head hurts after thinking about this....


LOL...hence the title of the similar thread on the Sadako board:
pub70.ezboard.com/ftherin...=130.topic

:rollin

dcjoedog
Sadako slave
(12/12/02 12:34:34 am)
Reply | Edit | Del
Re: But...
in the extended version of the movie the ending went along a bit more, and it showed rachel goign to a random video store dropping off the movie, atleast thats what i read off a site at any case, this would show that rachel know that ppl had to watch the copy to live

"Onward to adventure,and hopefully Glory"
<br>
<img src="http://home.earthlink.net/~dcjoedog/images/dcjoedog.jpg">

Rachael
citizen of the Loopworld
(12/12/02 10:12:24 am)
Reply | Edit | Del
But...
Samara's real problem is that she'd been in the well making tapes since VCR's first came to Shelter Mountain. The problem was she kept imprinting her images onto copies of "Meatballs 2" and "Lambada".

No one ever watched them again.

GravyBoat
further down the Spiral
(12/12/02 10:24:39 am)
Reply | Edit | Del
Re: But...
LOL!!!

Thank you, Rick Baker. You successfully scared the poop out of me.